I agree. Possibly: Linguistics (calligraphy and the like), Heal (cause they get hurt), and Knowledge (Nobility)(?)
Here's the most updated Swordmaster for those who haven't seen it.
You notice my comment on the last page? I actually thought it had disappeared until I conducted further investigation.
What is the duration on disorienting blow? The duration for different effects should probably be different.
As for power: I think you have made a more powerful version of a monk that uses swords in a lot of ways (with the attacks creating status effects and fighting styles). Tricky, practiced blade, flash of the blade, and opportunistic are all probably too good for various reasonst. Weirdly, the lone sword is weakest in terms of deeds when it is actually the one that needs the most help to be viable.
With the deeds I mentioned, it is probably in the very highest tiers of melee damage builds as it stands even without doing weird stuff like charging on dinosaurs or dual wielding revolvers.
Nope, didn't see the comment, must have been working on them at the same time.
Funny enough, with the exception of Flash of the Blade, the deeds you mention are ones I mostly copy/pasted. And I do agree that Lone Blade needs more support, what do you think of a higher # of attacks allowed by Blade Dance?
Copy-pasted from what?
And I think that might work fine. Maybe let the lone sword guy make one attack at his highest BAB and then another at -5. Later let him make a full attack more or less (like another at -10 and another at -15). You just have to be careful with how you word the ability. I bet someone would try to build lone-sword as a 2WF build (sword and fist) and I would want to curb the use of 2WF in conjunction with this effect.
Gunslingers Evasive deed (Tricky), and Subtle Blade (Practiced Blade). I don't think I've seen any deeds that scale with level, that will be interesting. Or it might be better to add these as extra deeds for the Lone Blade.
I don't know how I would feel if someone wanted to TWF with a fist and blade, mechanically, wouldn't they still be better off, just using the 1 weapon?
Not really. That is more attacks per round and if you have a wizard or druid friend then you can pretty much have them magic your fist every day if you give them a pearl of power or two with which to do it (or make it permanent). They would probably choose fist as their second type of edge-master weapon so they would be getting bonuses from there too.
I'll be damned. You are right about evasive. I thought that just gave evasion for some reason.
We don't know if subtle blade will be in the final rules, either. Not being disarmed is part of the fighter capstone after all (I did not think it was gamebreaking; just that it stole fighter thunder particularly hard).
What about opportunistic?
Fixed that Edgemaster issue, working on Blade Dance now.
It does steal fighter thunder, I keep forgetting about the base fighter being weaker than the houseruled one my group uses.
I just said in another thread twice that fighters need to be stronger.
For Flash of the blade, maybe it would be better to be a flat bonus to AC? Like +2 +1/2int modifier or something?
I think something like that would be fair, but maybe more like the Int modifier itself for simplicity, I don't imagine most characters will get more than a 14, or a 16 anyway.
No way man. They are gonna headband that up to 20 or 22 by late game.
Hmmm, I didn't consider them making Int a priority. I'll do 2+1/2 int mod. Should help out low wealth/low point-buy games, too.
Does Opportunistic seem like it's too powerful?
Well, it is really only broken if they do a feint build with two weapon feint, improved feint and greater feint. It would allow the swordmaster to give up their first offhand attack to feint and make the enemy flatfooted for the round and then get the attack back as an opportunity attack on the enemy's turn.
Honestly, it SUPER situational if you don't build around it, though. It is mostly good if you are feinting or have a feinting friend.
Excaliburproxy is probably right. He's doing a good job right now poking holes in one of my homebrews too. Rapier pun! ;)
That sounds like what I was going for, so I like it as is at this point. I was thinking of an alternate Deed for that level, and maybe another function eagle eye can fulfill:
(instead of Opportunist): At 11th level, a Swordmaster treats any normally 1-handed weapon as light for the purposes of Two-Weapon Fighting as long as she has at least 1 insight (Acumen? how are we feeling on that particular change?) point remaining.
(Alternate eagle eye): At 1st level, as long as the Swordmaster has at least 1 insight point, she applies her Intelligence modifier in place of her wisdom modifier to the Perception skill. (thinking of adding Sense motive to this)
Thoughts?
In lieu of a mere bump, how about name ideas for the Opportunist replacement?
Blade Focus: alphabetize the list and add an asterisk for the weapons not found in the CRB.
Quick Draw: "A swordmaster gains Quickdraw as a bonus feat. However, the benefit only applies when she draws a weapon from the Blade Focus list."
Deeds: The WOTS deeds need a heading to explain that the deeds gained depend on the WOTS path chosen.
Disciplined Mind/Calm Mind: 2 points is high, I think. Also, with the philosophical bend on this class, I find the bad Will save a strange thing.
Edgemaster: This is kind of redundant, because by 17th level the swordmaster will have definitely (should) have a magical means to have 18 int. If you are up for the extra work, do something like the fighter's weapon training that only functions with swords, or have her choose light, one-handed, or two-handed swords.
Branching Way: I would be a bit surprised if a 12th level character decided to switch it up and use the swords like she was 1st level. I think there would be no real abuse if she could both other paths as a swordmaster of half her level. Level -11 is pretty bad, Half level is only kind of bad. This could even be an earlier ability. But, think it over and get some other input before you change everything.
Deeds: The WOTS deeds need a heading to explain that the deeds gained depend on the WOTS path chosen.Disciplined Mind/Calm Mind: 2 points is high, I think. Also, with the philosophical bend on this class, I find the bad Will save a strange thing.
Branching Way: I would be a bit surprised if a 12th level character decided to switch it up and use the swords like she was 1st level. I think there would be no real abuse if she could both other paths as a swordmaster of half her level. Level -11 is pretty bad, Half level is only kind of bad. This could even be an earlier ability. But, think it over and get some other input before you change everything.
Just so I don't forget what I meant to respond with in regards to these before I go to bed:
Insight cost reduced, and I had the poor will progression as more of a balance thing, since among the classes I've made/plan to make, a good will save is going to be really common and wanted to mix things up more. I also feel that good Fort and Reflex are also thematically fitting, but all 3 would be far too much. Will think more on save progressions.
I don't believe I have the ability phrased well, it should allow the full progression of deeds and bonus feats from the first WotS in addition to starting to allow them from a separate path.
EDIT: My original idea for Edgemaster was a (slower progressing)scaling bonus to the critical range of one weapon, which now would need to be chosen from the Blade Focus list. What stopped me before was 1. this would have left empty levels. 1. I had no idea how balanced that would be. On the one hand a Swordmaster could have an effective critical range of 13-20 if using a keen weapon with a natural 18-20 range, on the other hand, this would have been after level 16 or so. Still want to do something with criticals for the class, but still, debating how.
Okay, now I can sleep.
Instead of a thread derailing, maybe some feedback on some of the ideas posted earlier?
This thread appears to have run most of it's course, so just a couple of things I'd like to hear about first:
1.Is there a consensus on what the good saves should be? Either Fort and Will, or Fort and Ref. Maybe even all 3?
2. How well balanced is Astra? It comes online at about the same time that the very idea of not full-attacking is a waste of time, but is a total of x2 damage too much, or even not enough, as DR may inhibit the Swordmaster?
Deeds: The WOTS deeds need a heading to explain that the deeds gained depend on the WOTS path chosen.
You don't think the parts in the "deeds" section labeled with the various WotS are clear enough? Should they be moved into the section with the bonus deeds for clarity? With a heading like: The following deeds are gained at the mentioned level for a Swordmaster who chooses this WotS.
I missed that.
There are some cool swords in here that may be fun with this.
Ooh. Well I do like swords, and one of the other players in my game group will love the fencer from the sound of it. Gonna give it a look-see.
EDIT: If theres one thing I love seeing, its "Payment method declined." does the online store not accept debit?
Ooh. Well I do like swords, and one of the other players in my game group will love the fencer from the sound of it. Gonna give it a look-see.
EDIT: If theres one thing I love seeing, its "Payment method declined." does the online store not accept debit?
weird, works for mine
weird, works for mineOoh. Well I do like swords, and one of the other players in my game group will love the fencer from the sound of it. Gonna give it a look-see.
EDIT: If theres one thing I love seeing, its "Payment method declined." does the online store not accept debit?
Odd, went through fine the second time. oh well, whats that saying about a gift horses mouth? Anyway, thanks for pointing me to that product, do you have any comments on this class itself though? Anything could help.
EDIT: Say... one of these names in the credits looks familiar...
And once more before I call it quits:
1. Is there a consensus on what the good saves should be? Either Fort and Will, or Fort and Ref. Maybe even all 3?
2. How well balanced is Astra? It comes online at about the same time that the very idea of not full-attacking is a waste of time, but is a total of x2 damage too much, or even not enough, as DR may inhibit the Swordmaster?
3. What, if any, change to the name of Insight should be done?
Thanks for the support!
1) That is 100% your call, 'cause its 100% theme. When we get down to it, the GM style determines what the valuable saves are. As I have mentioned before, YOUR write suggests to ME that that Will is the thematically correct save for a swordmaster, but I have no opinion on what your write up determines on fort or reflex.
2) Astra = too complicated. trust me, I know that high level abilities are tough to work out. But please go back to the drawing board.
3) I offered support of your own suggestion on this before.
Agreed on astra.
I should give a little info on where astra came from. Back when this class was just going to be the most direct copy from Fire Emblem I could manage, Astra was a special ability from the class that did exactly what the deed does: You would have a % chance (obviously removed for not working well with pathfinder gameplay) for it to activate, and when it did, you would hit a target 5 times, each doing 1/2 normal damage. Is there a simpler way to incorporate it? I'd really like to keep the nod to the original class. And I suppose the Will save would win out if I had to pick between it, and Reflex.
I am definitely using the class. what stats are most important?
Well, that's one of my favorite things about a class like this, the important stats are mostly decided by how you want to sword at people. Str, and Int are always important I'd imagine, and there is yet to be a class tht doesn't appreciate a good Con.
Acumen it is.
Also, thoughts on the change to edgemaster? I'd need to add something else to fill in the levels that end up empty.
Edgemaster looks the same as before.
I haven't changed it quite yet, as it would cause more work than just changing the description. but I'm referring to changing Edgemaster to a scaling bonus to crit range, and slowing the progression to 5th, then 13th.