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I've been jamming on a few character concepts for some backup characters I've been thinking about for PFS. I've really been interested in playing a character from Hermea recently, I just like the whole "Brave New World" thing they've got going on, but I also have a tendency to like "planetouched" (does Paizo actually use this term or do they have another catch-all?) races like Tieflings, Ifrits, etc. And I thought... such a character could be a really interesting concept, but I wanna make sure it jives with the lore.
Unlike, say, half-orcs or half-elves, these "planetouched" races don't literally need an outsider as one of their parents, and oftentimes it manifests as something from a while back in their family tree, but perhaps a little more recent than Sorceror bloodlines. Still, a planetouched child can be born to human parents, even theoretically "perfect" humans on Hermea, right?
How would Hermea's government or Mengkare react to the birth of such a being? I could see some irony in like, a human being invited to Hermea due to her apparent natural charisma only to find out that she had an angel somewhere in her ancestry and have her child pop out as an Aasimar. Would Hermea or Mengkare necessarily know about her ancestry, realistically, or be just as surprised as she is? Is there any way of screening for that?
And more importantly: how would they react to the birth of a "planetouched"? I know non-humans aren't exactly outlawed on Hermea, but the Grand Endeavor is about perfecting humanity. Arguably, these planetouched are "like humans but better" (especially for the more 'pretty' ones like Aasimar who have no negative skill mods), so would they be seen as a success of the Endeavor, or a threat to it? I like the idea of a character who's been kicked off Hermea due to manifesting outsider traits in his adolescence, but I could also see such traits being lauded back home.
What do you guys think?
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You seem to have as good a handle on Hermea as anyone, and there's not a lot of info out there on it, which means all your options are reasonable, and you should go with whichever one suits the character you want to play.
Now, personally, I'd say that while Mengkare would be fine with little touches of Outsider blood to improve his people (and thus wouldn't necessarily reject human applicants/candidates because of it), a full blown Aasimar or Tiefling has drifted too far from the root stock for his purposes and would get kicked out like anyone deemed unsuitable. An exception might be made for an Aasimar with the Scion of Humanity alternate racial trait, since that makes them a lot closer to human.
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You seem to have as good a handle on Hermea as anyone, and there's not a lot of info out there on it, which means all your options are reasonable, and you should go with whichever one suits the character you want to play.
Now, personally, I'd say that while Mengkare would be fine with little touches of Outsider blood to improve his people (and thus wouldn't necessarily reject human applicants/candidates because of it), a full blown Aasimar or Tiefling has drifted too far from the root stock for his purposes and would get kicked out like anyone deemed unsuitable. An exception might be made for an Aasimar with the Scion of Humanity alternate racial trait, since that makes them a lot closer to human.
Ah, I was hoping there was more on it besides what I read in the Inner Sea Guide.
Do we know how Mengkare views bloodlines? The initial idea for the character was using the ACG's new Bloodrager class as a kind of genetically engineered super-soldier due to the nation's focus on eugenics, but I thought it'd be interestingly ironic if he was a clandestine non-human.
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Ah, I was hoping there was more on it besides what I read in the Inner Sea Guide.
Do we know how Mengkare views bloodlines? The initial idea for the character was using the ACG's new Bloodrager class as a kind of genetically engineered super-soldier due to the nation's focus on eugenics, but I thought it'd be interestingly ironic if he was a clandestine non-human.
No info, but that sounds cool...so go for it.
Even if there is no problem with Sorceror bloodlines of outsider/other species,
1) AFAIK, there is no indication that those are actually 'viable' breeding sources of planetouched,
2) even if they were, we can assume that Mengkare's eugenics planning is able to ensure that no planetouched are born,
if only for their disruption of human society, i.e. Aasimar et al are very long lived, creating a new inter-generational dynamic.
This is a thousands of year old super-genius eugenecist you're talking about, being fully aware of each subject's lineage is par for course.
I don't have anything against planetouched characters, I play such characters,
but if you "like them as a general rule" then it sounds more like you're re-hashing a generic player tendency,
losing a chance to role-play something flowing from the Herman concept as such, which is described as eugenically pure human population, full stop.
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Even if there is no problem with Sorceror bloodlines of outsider/other species,
1) AFAIK, there is no indication that those are actually 'viable' breeding sources of planetouched,
2) even if they were, we can assume that Mengkare's eugenics planning is able to ensure that no planetouched are born,
if only for their disruption of human society, i.e. Aasimar et al are very long lived, creating a new inter-generational dynamic.
This is a thousands of year old super-genius eugenecist you're talking about, being fully aware of each subject's lineage is par for course.I don't have anything against planetouched characters, I play such characters,
but if you "like them as a general rule" then it sounds more like you're re-hashing a generic player tendency,
losing a chance to role-play something flowing from the Herman concept as such, which is described as eugenically pure human population, full stop.
Well that's why I was asking- I've got two character concepts depending on how Hermean society might view the character. I never make a character just based on skills, trust me: I've been jamming on this character for a month before even looking into the "crunch".
The thing is, I'm not sure if Mengkare's planning could take into account planetouched. That's why I asked here, hence me asking if there's some way of screening for it. And I wasn't sure how far back Mengkare's records go: sure, he may be a great eugenicist, but without available data, I don't know how far back he can go. Hell, maybe a chaotic outsider like an Azata would decide to f#&@ with Mengkare's planning and have a Hermean woman give birth to a musetouched?
I was thinking of a character who, if he was born some kind of planetouched, would've been kicked out of Hermea during his adolescence and holds a grudge against the nation. Maybe before his exile he managed to steal some plans, so agents of Mengkare might be sent into the wider world to track him down.
The other idea might be someone who's capable of hiding his planetouched ancestry (probably an Aasimar or Sylph), always worried on "passing" as human.
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We've said on various occasions that Mengkare is cool with adding periodic dashes of non-human or part-human races to his experiment in order to bring out the best of humanity. Plus, given how many different races can breed with humans, combined with the long length of human history, I'd venture that *most* folks probably have a non-human somewhere in their family tree, it's just a question of how much and how far back. So "human" is kind of in the eye of the beholder.
In short: go for it!
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We've said on various occasions that Mengkare is cool with adding periodic dashes of non-human or part-human races to his experiment in order to bring out the best of humanity. Plus, given how many different races can breed with humans, combined with the long length of human history, I'd venture that *most* folks probably have a non-human somewhere in their family tree, it's just a question of how much and how far back. So "human" is kind of in the eye of the beholder.
In short: go for it!
Good enough for me!
So not only part-humans are OK, but non-humans as well? E.g. Dwarves, Elves, Hobgoblins, Tengu, etc?
If those are being brought into the experiment, then is there an intention to bring ALL demihumans in?
Or only certain races? It would seem strange to be random about such a thing.
I actually remember now that some Paizo dev said that the age statistics for Plane-Touched are Errata (adulthood at 60, which would put them longer lived than Dwarves), and I presume they are on par with Half-Elf/Half-Orcs (depending on the Planetouched type). Is that true? Very long lifespans was the thing that seemed most disruptive to a human-centric social/breeding experiment.
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So not only part-humans are OK, but non-humans as well? E.g. Dwarves, Elves, Hobgoblins, Tengu, etc?
If those are being brought into the experiment, then is there an intention to bring ALL demihumans in?
Or only certain races? It would seem strange to be random about such a thing.I actually remember now that some Paizo dev said that the age statistics for Plane-Touched are Errata (adulthood at 60, which would put them longer lived than Dwarves), and I presume they are on par with Half-Elf/Half-Orcs (depending on the Planetouched type). Is that true? Very long lifespans was the thing that seemed most disruptive to a human-centric social/breeding experiment.
I remember reading that Mengkare did indeed invite small amounts of non-human races, but I imagine that they have to be the kind of races that can breed with a human which would preclude, hopefully, any oviparous creatures like Nagaji or Tengu, and since they would be invited there you couldn't really put Steaming Sea as your region of origin.
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I remember reading that Mengkare did indeed invite small amounts of non-human races, but I imagine that they have to be the kind of races that can breed with a human which would preclude, hopefully, any oviparous creatures like Nagaji or Tengu, and since they would be invited there you couldn't really put Steaming Sea as your region of origin.So not only part-humans are OK, but non-humans as well? E.g. Dwarves, Elves, Hobgoblins, Tengu, etc?
If those are being brought into the experiment, then is there an intention to bring ALL demihumans in?
Or only certain races? It would seem strange to be random about such a thing.I actually remember now that some Paizo dev said that the age statistics for Plane-Touched are Errata (adulthood at 60, which would put them longer lived than Dwarves), and I presume they are on par with Half-Elf/Half-Orcs (depending on the Planetouched type). Is that true? Very long lifespans was the thing that seemed most disruptive to a human-centric social/breeding experiment.
Yeah, the point of Mengkare inviting non-humans or part-humans there is for the good of the overall human perfection experiment, so while I suppose he might invite the occasional exotic race to come teach or otherwise help facilitate, his main focus is the breeding program.
Yes, as far as I can tell Hermea is all about getting the best and brightest, and introducing some planar blood might be something Mengkare or his advisors decide to do. In fact, trying to make all or a distinct part of the human population something else might fit with the idea.
P.S.: I am a bit peeved about how obvious the hints of all not being nice and shiny about Hermea are. Sure, Andoran is this perfect country that revolted against evil Cheliax but did not go overboard, has liberty and freedom for all, great resources, and nothing points to a shadowy side. Hermea, a country ruled by a freaking gold dragon? The warnings are as subtle as a brick wall.
Because these are two different situations.
Andoran (and Nirimithas(sp?), Galt, etc...) fought for their freedom from an empire they figured had way too much potential go get oppressive (and in Andoran's case, actually did).
Hermea is a friggin' Eugenics Program. Even headed by a Gold Dragon, the implication that he's even trying it is kinda dodgy. Metallic Dragons do tarnish from time to time, and Mengkare is striding on a rather slippery slope. It's up to the DM (or a future module/adventure path) on whether or not he's keeping his footing.
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Check out these old threads for interesting discussion on Hermea:
Hermea thread 1
Hermea thread 2
If Mengkare allows "the occasional elf" to immigrate, an aasimar should be ok. Though an planetouched influence manifesting in the bloodline of an adolescent is another thing entirely than letting a full grown one immigrate. Maybe the PC got banned but is not sure himself if he was banned due to his bloodline or some other perceived imperfection ?
In one the threads above I posted some notes on worldbuilding Hermea. Note that Megkare is not as powerful as some think, as an old or very old dragon only:
From the Ask Sutter thread: 6. What is Mengkare's age category? The circa 2008 Campaign Setting says he's an "Old" dragon.
Sutter: 6. I don't think we've updated that in print since the Pathfinder RPG update, so I won't say, but I believe he's *quite* old and powerful...
So no great wyrm. But may possibly have advanced to Very Old now, which is CR 19. Access to True Seeing and Geas/Quest. 6th level casting if very old, else only 5th-level. So by no means artifact-level awesomeness. He's a nice capstone for a high level adventure/AP, but can be overshadowed by mortal NPCs in a specialized area. Especially spellcasting.
I started worldbuilding Hermea's capitol and the island and there could (and imho should) easily be some NPC players on his level (I.e. CL 13-17+). So it's not so easy and clear cut as many think, even with this small a nation.
One problem with plane touched from a eugenics point of view is they for lack of a better term have an uncontrolled genetic strain that can't be predicted. When it does kicm in it seems to overwrite existing genetics.
For lack of a better example I got the inpreszion that black pygmies from mwangi could give birth to a 6ft blonde blue eyed angelkin aasimar.
(Btw my example was for contrast nothing else).
If that is the case given you can't predict it and rhe angelkins child could be... a mwangi pygmie it doesn't do eugenics a lot of good.
If I misunderstood how it works though...