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I am not sure why the making of a Bomb is relevant.
The enchantment basically just siphons the power of your Bombs, through the weapon.
No Bomb making, but the RAW supernatural power of the Bomb.
How does it do that?
Magic.
It's a magical enchantment, channeling the magical power of your Bombs through the weapon.
If anyone is looking for a logical, or scientific reason, for how a magical enchantment works, then be prepared to be disappointed.
So then if I cast a Touch Spell, I must also make a Touch Attack in the same round as casting the Touch Spell; I can't choose to not make a Touch Attack with the Touch Spell, hold the charge and then wait until a future round in the combat to utilize it. (We can also take this extension to a Touch SP Ability.)
Seems legit enough for me; if you're going to apply that logic to one scenario, then you must apply it to all other scenarios it fits in, otherwise you're simply rigging the game to work the way you want it to, and we can play that game all day long.
No, because there is rules text saying you can decide not to use it.
In most cases, if you don't discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round until the spell is discharged. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.
Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can't hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.
Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action.
Note that delivering a Touch spell is a Free action, not part of the same Standard like a Bomb is.
But you CAN'T do either of those with Ranged Touch Spells...kinda like Bombs. Fancy that.
Some spells allow you to make a ranged touch attack as part of the casting of the spell. These attacks are made as part of the spell and do not require a separate action.
After all, if you can't choose to not throw the Bomb, then there is a lot of excess wording that doesn't belong and needs to be cleaned up, period. None of this "Bomb goes inert if you pass to another character" or "Bomb goes inert if not used in the same round" needs to be in the ability description if it works the way you say it's supposed to.
Or maybe...just maybe...it's not supposed to work that way? Just a thought...I mean, if you're not allowed to do anything inbetween that action, then why is there language present that at the very least suggests you can do what the language implies you can do?
First off, you seem a mite confused.
Bombs do not "go inert if passed to another character". That is Extracts (without Infusion).
You can't pass Bombs around, but if someone gets their hands on one before the end of the round (say...with Snatch Arrows), it still works just fine.
And they can indeed drop it or hold onto it without it going off, until the next round hits and the Bomb becomes inert.
That alone means the text is not extraneous...there is an extant Feat that interacts with Bombs in such a way that after they are thrown they can be manipulated. You can even play games of catch with your Snatch Arrows having friends if you please.
Secondly, that language exists so that Feats and Discoveries can break those rules. Delayed Bombs, for example, allows you to place them as a charge instead of throwing them.
And then, by your RAW-Ful Stupid Alignment (see what I did there?)
Yes, indeed. How very droll.
you're forced to throw the bomb. You can't keep it
Correct.
you can't ready it to attempt to interrupt a spell being cast
Perhaps you need to re-read the readied action rules.
You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action.
Guess what action creating and throwing a Bomb is?
If you said Standard, you were correct.
So yes, you can ready an action to throw a Bomb to interrupt a spellcaster. You just can't make one and then throw it later.
you can't move out of cover and THEN throw it.
What's stopping you?
Move to come out of cover, Standard to make and throw.
No, not at all. It's right there, on the spot, you have to throw it. Period.
Yes, once you have mixed it you have to throw it. It's part of the same action.
Just like you can't have a spellcaster cast most of a touch spell and then save teh rest for later.
Not only is it rules illegal...it's pointless. The Attack Action is a Standard action anyway, so even if you could complete the attack, you would get the same results from casting it in the first place.
Even though there is so much language that suggests or implies otherwise. Logic.
I'm not sure you thought out your little tirade nearly as well as you thought you did.
Not being able to hold onto the Bomb affects literally nothing except making it illegal to hand off to an ally to toss at the enemy.
And why would you waste your Standard so your ally can do the same thing you could have done with that Standard? It's pointless.
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No, really, the process of making a Bomb, or what happens when it is caught by a Monk, or whose alignment is what, is all totally irrelevant to the ability of this enchantment.
You have to ignore the things that do not matter, to even begin to understand.
You might as well ask if the Alchemist is Vegan.
He knows that, I know that, but since he wants to argue about other stuff it's coo'.
@ Rynjin: So if I'm an Alchemist without a bomb created, you will allow me to ready an Action to throw an object that's otherwise not there (i.e. the Bomb) at a creature to interrupt their spell being cast? Interesting.
And if you notice, the intent of the "All in one Standard Action" is to allow essentially what is allowed with other Touch Spells. As I've explained previously, if that clause is not there, just as the "Free Action to Touch as part of the Touch Spell" clause has to be for that to work, the ability may very well be fundamentally useless and does not function whatsoever.
Really? Bombs do work when possessed by other people, even non-Alchemist enemies? I wonder what kind of game you're playing then:
An alchemist's bomb, like an extract, becomes inert if used or carried by anyone else.
Even if you allow Snatch Arrows to work for a Monk to catch the Bomb, he can't throw it back (or better yet, let's just say he can, but thanks to the above clause,) by that point because the Bomb becomes inert with the above clause.
I could even stretch this argument further and say that since it's not a projectile for the Monk to deflect, he couldn't even use Snatch Arrows in the first place. But the point is moot even if it is allowed anyway.
You can't move out of cover when you're in the middle of performing that action, with a 5 foot or otherwise. You have to stay in that spot when you're initiating the Bomb action, according to you argument.
And I ask you again; if you're not allowed to do all of this other stuff, then why is there so much language suggesting that you can? If the ability works the way you say it's supposed to, the language in the ability needs to be cleaned up majorly, in which case a FAQ for Errata is necessary.
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It's worth noting that while this definitely does work, it also only will affect the single target of the bomb. It doesn't explode and hit other targets, as per the text of Conductive:
When the wielder makes a successful attack of the appropriate type, he may choose to expend two uses of his magical ability to channel it through the weapon to the struck opponent, which suffers the effects of both the weapon attack and the special ability.
It doesn't replicate the effect of the supernatural ability that's expended - it simply subjects the target of the conductive weapon attack to the effects of the supernatural ability.
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It's worth noting that while this definitely does work, it also only will affect the single target of the bomb. It doesn't explode and hit other targets, as per the text of Conductive:
When the wielder makes a successful attack of the appropriate type, he may choose to expend two uses of his magical ability to channel it through the weapon to the struck opponent, which suffers the effects of both the weapon attack and the special ability.It doesn't replicate the effect of the supernatural ability that's expended - it simply subjects the target of the conductive weapon attack to the effects of the supernatural ability.
If you suffer the effects of the ability, then the splash damage goes along with it. It is an effect of the ability, thus travels through Conductive.
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Who cares if the Bombs do, or do not, work for anyone else, or if a Monk can catch them?
Totally irrelevant.
The Conductive ability works, because Bombs are (Su), and rely on a attack roll.
Boom!
The magical enchantment, magically channels the magical power of the Bombs, through the weapon.
How?
Magic.
Who cares if the Bombs do, or do not, work for anyone else, or if a Monk can catch them?
Totally irrelevant.
The Conductive ability works, because Bombs are (Su), and rely on a attack roll.
Boom!
The magical enchantment, magically channels the magical power of the Bombs, through the weapon.
How?
Magic.
If bbt and I are in agreement, clearly everybody else is wrong.
@ Rynjin: So if I'm an Alchemist without a bomb created, you will allow me to ready an Action to throw an object that's otherwise not there (i.e. the Bomb) at a creature to interrupt their spell being cast? Interesting.
Are...are you saying you WOULDN'T?
You can ready a Standard action man, this is ANOTHER non-ambiguous rule. Are you seriously gonna go down this road?
You can't move out of cover when you're in the middle of performing that action, with a 5 foot or otherwise. You have to stay in that spot when you're initiating the Bomb action, according to you argument.
What the f+&$ are you even talking about right now?
No, you can't move once you've started making a Bomb. Because you can't just choose to interrupt a Standard action whenever you feel like it and move somewhere.
But you CAN Move and then use your Standard once you're out of cover.
This is like...rules basics man. I'm not sure why you're arguing with me on this.
@ Rynjin: The point is that if my readied Standard Action is "Throw a bomb at so and so when they're about to cast a spell," a RAW-Is-Law group (i.e. PFS) would sit there and say "Your readied Standard Action is to throw a bomb, which you currently do not possess. The parameters for your readied action cannot be met." And they're right; if I substituted "bomb" for "dagger," an item of which I do not possess, they would say the same exact thing.
If my readied Standard Action is "Create and throw a bomb at so and so when they're about to cast a spell," there would be no qualms because it fits exactly in-line with the ability, according to the parameters you designed for it. And that's removing all of the unneeded wording it currently possesses to fit the interpretation you give it.
Who cares if the Bombs do, or do not, work for anyone else, or if a Monk can catch them?
Again, by this logic, who cares if the SP is, or is not, a Touch SP, or if anyone can make a Touch Attack? Because the specifics and details are everything in this game, and showing ignorance in them only has people question your arguments. (And before you say anything, yes, this goes for me too. That's why I am being very analytical about this.)
I mean, as Rynjin has stated, an object or creature created from the effects of an SU or SP ability does not count for effects related to Conductive. As far as I'm concerned, this still applies even if I can use that object or creature to make touch attacks with it.
If I create a(n) (temporary) Object or Creature from a SU or SP ability, using other objects as components for this SU or SP ability (assuming it calls for it), by your logic, that object then becomes usable with the Conductive Property, because it's from a SU ability, and relies on a Touch Attack roll.
Both of these interpretations can't be right, and it hinges on one factor; if it's an item. The Bomb you create using actual in-game items (and stated ability components) either is an object (of which cannot be used with Conductive, as Rynjin stated objects created from the effects of a SU or SP ability does not count for effects related to Conductive), or is not an object (of which can be used with Conductive, though violates the entire purpose of the ability stating it needs a small vial able to contain an ounce of liquid catalyst to create the bomb in the first place).
Conductive does alleviate the need for hands when it comes to using the SU or SP abilities, because as it says, you're transferring the ability's effects through the weapon, but does it alleviate the production of objects (you should note this is the source for which this damage comes from) as well?
@Darksol
If you want to make a RAW argument, then you have to either show where the Conductive ability says "this works with supernatural abilities that use a touch attack unless..." or show where Bombs are not a ranged touch attack. Until you provide either you are not discussing RAW, you are discussing RAI. Which is fine. You can have a discussion about RAI if you wish. You should just be aware of the difference.
It hinges on 2 factors actually
1.Is it a SU ability?
And
2.Does it rely on a touch attack to hit the target?
So we do the following...check to see if bombs are a SU ability and see if they require a touch attack to hit
Checking.....
Yes bombs is listed as Bombs (SU)
Bombs require a ranged touch attack to hit their target
If you have arguments beyond this please take it to a different forum because the RAW is clear
[sarcasm]All alchemists are atheists...no one with religious ideas remakes matter into something else (I'm a FMA fan)
My alchemists vials were the shape of shrunken pugwampis...I would just assume everyone else's were the same. [/sarcasm]