So I've always thought that there should be an archetype for a Chaotic Good Paladin. So I've tried to make a balanced archetype. Being that this is my first homebrew go easy on me :), but I would like suggestions on balancing issues you see or suggestions on possible improvements. Here we go.
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Class Skills: A Liberator adds Bluff and Escape Artist to her list of class skills. These replace the paladin's Diplomacy class skill.
Controlled Charge (Ex): The Liberator willing charges into enemies to help those in need. Upon reaching 2nd level, the liberator can charge without incurring the -2 penalty to her AC. This ability replaces the paladin's Divine Grace.
Divine Health (Ex): At 3rd level, a liberator is immune to all poisons. This ability replaces the paladin's Divine Health.
Divine Initiative (Su): At 3rd level, the liberator is blessed with uncanny reflexes and vigor. He is granted the ability to act in all surprise rounds of combat. The liberator is also granted a +1 sacred bonus on attack and damage rolls during surprise rounds and the first rounds of combat. Every three levels beyond 3rd, the sacred bonus increases +1 to a maximum of +6 at 18th level. This ability replaces the paladin's mercies.
Lay on Hands (Su): Because of the liberator attacks first then helps those freed, starting at 4th level he gains the ability to heal others. This functions as the paladin's lay on hands ability, except he treats his paladin level as -2 when determining the amount of uses per day he can use. This ability replaces the paladin's lay on hands.
Aura of Freedom (Su): At 6th level, the liberator becomes immune to magical means of restriction and applies his Charisma bonus to all Escape Artist checks and CMB checks to escape grapples. Each ally within 10 feet gains a +4 morale bonus to Escape Artist checks, CMB checks to escape grapples, and saving throws against becoming entangles, paralyzed, or slowed.
Channel Positive Energy (Su): When a liberator reaches 6th level, he can channel positive energy. This acts just like the standard paladin's channel positive energy, except he treats his paladin levels as -2 when determining his effective cleric level when channeling. This ability replaces the paladin's channel positive energy.
Code of Conduct: The liberator must be of chaotic good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if he willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a liberator's code requires that he help those in need, respect individual liberty, and punish those who either threaten or curtail personal liberty."
Associates: Same as a standard paladin, except a liberator only accepts henchmen, followers, or cohorts of chaotic good alignment.
Ex-Liberators: A liberator who ceases to be chaotic god, who willfully commits an evil act, or who violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and class features (including the service of the liberator's mount, bu not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may no progress any further in levels as a liberator. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations, as appropriate.
Here are some of my thought processes for this archetype.
- A liberator is a paladin that is willing to do whatever it takes to help her cause (within reason of course). She is impulsive. She will charge into any situation if someone is in danger. She is first to react to situations.
- Going with the freedom theme, Aura of Freedom felt like it fit well. Most of the concept came with blending the typical aura structure with the Freedom variant channeling heal effect.
- I have thought about possibly keeping some of the mercies and leapfrogging the Divine Initiative bonuses to be levels 3, 9, and 15 while mercies would be gained at levels 6, 12, and 18.
Thanks for the impute in advanced.
This seems like a pretty drastic nerfing of the standard paladin.
Divine Grace for no charge penalty? That's like trading a ferrari for a honda.
Mercies to a surprise round bonus. About equal I guess.
Reduced lay on hands for increased channel? But fewer lay on hands means fewer channels anyway.
This seems like a pretty drastic nerfing of the standard paladin.
Divine Grace for no charge penalty? That's like trading a ferrari for a honda.
Mercies to a surprise round bonus. About equal I guess.
Reduced lay on hands for increased channel? But fewer lay on hands means fewer channels anyway.
Quite understandable on those observations. Like I said, my first ever homebrew. I knew there were going to be some balancing issues.
Any suggestions on what to add or change to help balance it a bit more?
Here are some thoughts I had.
I'll revamp this a bit and post it again.
Here's round 2.
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Class Skills: A Liberator adds Bluff and Escape Artist to her list of class skills. These replace the paladin's Diplomacy class skill.
Controlled Charge (Ex): The Liberator's willingness to charge into battle to help those in need requires poise and a lack of encumbrance. Upon reaching 2nd level, the liberator can charge without incurring the -2 penalty to her AC. This ability replaces the paladin's heavy armor proficiency.
Divine Health (Ex): At 3rd level, a liberator is immune to all poisons. This ability replaces the paladin's Divine Health.
Divine Initiative (Su): At 3rd level, the liberator is blessed with uncanny reflexes and vigor. He is granted the ability to act in all surprise rounds of combat. The liberator is also granted a +1 sacred bonus on attack and damage rolls during surprise rounds and the first rounds of combat. Every three levels beyond 3rd, the sacred bonus increases +1 to a maximum of +6 at 18th level. This ability replaces the paladin's mercies.
Lay on Hands (Su): Because of the liberator attacks first then helps those freed, starting at 4th level he gains the ability to heal others.
Aura of Freedom (Su): At 6th level, the liberator becomes immune to magical means of restriction and applies his Charisma bonus to all Escape Artist checks and CMB checks to escape grapples. Each ally within 10 feet gains a +4 morale bonus to Escape Artist checks, CMB checks to escape grapples, and saving throws against becoming entangles, paralyzed, or slowed.
Channel Positive Energy (Su): When a liberator reaches 6th level, he can channel positive energy.
Code of Conduct: The liberator must be of chaotic good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if he willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a liberator's code requires that he help those in need, respect individual liberty, and punish those who either threaten or curtail personal liberty."
Associates: Same as a standard paladin, except a liberator only accepts henchmen, followers, or cohorts of chaotic good alignment.
Ex-Liberators: A liberator who ceases to be chaotic good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and class features (including the service of the liberator's mount, bu not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may no progress any further in levels as a liberator. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations, as appropriate.
I feel this balances it a little more. Some minor mistakes were fixed as well. Tell me what you think.
Charisma modifier replaces bonus to attack and damage when making a charge. Just a thought.
Here's round 2.
** spoiler omitted **...
Even being chaotic, I don't think any paladin should be better at lying than at making friends.
The charge ability is better, I wonder if it might be more novel to let them charge further than normal instead of removing the penalty. It fits a similar flavor but is arguably a better balanced ability. No big deal either way though.
Avoid calling divine health the same thing since it does something different. Divine Resolve maybe?
On divine initiative, what does first rounds of combat mean? Should it say, the first round of combat after any surprise round. I also recommend against the bonus going above +5. (the extra charge distance ability I mentioned would synergize really well with this ability). It's a big bonus, but I don't know if it's useful enough to make it on par with mercies. Currently, I don't really have any suggestions for a similar ability. I'll have to think on it.
Aura of Freedom should probably replace another aura and be gained at that level. It's an odd ability that makes one immune to magic constriction but not mundane. A freedom of movement effect though would need to be fairly high level. 11th level replacing Aura of Justice would probably be ok. It's also an Aura they could lose without hurting the flavor.
Channel should mention that it otherwise functions identical to the paladin ability.
Definitely a step up from Mark I.
why does he get LoH at 4? doesnt he get it at 2?
why does he get LoH at 4? doesnt he get it at 2?
That reminds me. If you're going to remove the ability to heal themselves, another BIG nerf, you should make healing allies easier. A move action, or even swift.
Why did you make this change? What was your thought process?
Personally, I'd just swap out the axiomatic divine bond weapon quality for anarchic, change every instance of "lawful" class features to chaotic, and call it a day. No need to reinvent the wheel.
But that's just me.
Personally, I'd just swap out the axiomatic divine bond weapon quality for anarchic, change every instance of "lawful" class features to chaotic, and call it a day. No need to reinvent the wheel.
But that's just me.
No fun to play it safe either though...
Even being chaotic, I don't think any paladin should be better at lying than at making friends.
That is true. I got the idea from the paladin of freedom variant from Unearthed Arcana. It gains Bluff for Diplomacy. Maybe I can stipulate in the code of conduct about it to help narrow what bluff can be used for. Cause I can see bluff coming in handy for things like feinting and such.
Avoid calling divine health the same thing since it does something different. Divine Resolve maybe?
I thought so too. I just couldn't think of what to change it to that made it relevant. I like Divine Resolve. Good sound to it and it fits. Thanks.
On divine initiative, what does first rounds of combat mean? Should it say, the first round of combat after any surprise round. I also recommend against the bonus going above +5. (the extra charge distance ability I mentioned would synergize really well with this ability). It's a big bonus, but I don't know if it's useful enough to make it on par with mercies. Currently, I don't really have any suggestions for a similar ability. I'll have to think on it.
That is what I intended to be. I have a habit of wording things that makes sense to me, but doesn't convey my intent. I'll reword that. As for the not going higher than +5, I mentioned an option in my first post.
I have thought about possibly keeping some of the mercies and leapfrogging the Divine Initiative bonuses to be levels 3, 9, and 15 while mercies would be gained at levels 6, 12, and 18.
What do you think? It would only go to a +3 bonus and gain some of the mercies to boot.
Aura of Freedom should probably replace another aura and be gained at that level. It's an odd ability that makes one immune to magic constriction but not mundane. A freedom of movement effect though would need to be fairly high level. 11th level replacing Aura of Justice would probably be ok. It's also an Aura they could lose without hurting the flavor.
I thought about switching it out for an aura, but couldn't decide which one to get ride of. I like the idea of having the freedom of movement spell effect instead. I think the bonus to allies w/in 10' is still good. Probably would keep that.
That reminds me. If you're going to remove the ability to heal themselves, another BIG nerf, you should make healing allies easier. A move action, or even swift.
Why did you make this change? What was your thought process?
That's another typo. I put the text in quick. There are no changes to Lay on Hands except that it is gained at level 4.
Charisma modifier replaces bonus to attack and damage when making a charge. Just a thought.
So replace the bonuses to attack and damage for Cha mod to charges? With that I could see lowering the replaced mercies to just a single mercy (maybe 2) replaced? Then keep the rest of the mercies? Or was there another idea?
Personally, I'd just swap out the axiomatic divine bond weapon quality for anarchic, change every instance of "lawful" class features to chaotic, and call it a day. No need to reinvent the wheel.
But that's just me.
I forgot to put that in as well. Didn't plan on changing Divine Bond at all except for that. So many little mistakes made. :(
I really appreciate all the insight and help. This is helping a lot.
why does he get LoH at 4? doesnt he get it at 2?
The reasoning behind this change is that the Liberator is an attack first, help later champion. He gets rid of all potential danger before he helps those he has freed or "liberated". Going with this idea he gains several abilities early that are combat oriented and I felt that it would overpower the early levels to have both offensive abilities and the defensive/healing abilities. That is the only real reason.
Say that both Lay on Hands and Channel Positive Energy were gained at the normal levels the Liberator would receive a total numbers of 12 abilities by level 5 (3 @ level 1, 3 @ level 2, 3 @ level 3, 2 @ level 4, and 1 @ level 5).
I don't really have any suggestions for a similar ability.
I just thought of a different ability that could replace Controlled Charge and Divine Initiative.
Divine Initiative (Su): At 2rd level, the liberator is blessed with uncanny reflexes and vigor. He is granted the ability to act in all surprise rounds of combat. The liberator is also granted a +1 sacred bonus on attack and damage rolls during surprise rounds and the first rounds of combat after surprise rounds. This increases to +2 at level 6, +3 at level 9, +4 at level 15, and +5 at level 18. This ability replaces the paladin's heavy armor proficiency and mercies gained at level 6 and 15.
Surge (Su): At 2nd level a liberator is granted a surge of divine energy to specific attacks or abilities. This surge may enhance the liberator's ability to ride evil from the world.
At 2nd level, the liberator can select from the following initial surges.
At 6th level, a liberator adds the following surges to the list of those that can be selected.
Etc....
Surges can be selected at levels 2, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18. These replace the paladin's mercies gained at levels 3, 9, 12, and 18.
I'm sure you get the idea now.
What do you think Davick? I literally thought of this and put it together in like 5 minutes. So I know it's not going to be balanced. I was just putting my idea into written form.
I thought it helped in being able to customize the character more. The mercies would probably have to be limited to specific levels for access, but I thought this idea created a character worth playing that balances out for the lack of mercies.
I don't really have any suggestions for a similar ability.I just thought of a different ability that could replace Controlled Charge and Divine Initiative.
** spoiler omitted **
What do you think Davick? I literally thought of this and put it together in...
I'm a big fan of options, so I'd be fine with replacing features with choices (it's what I did when I redid the hunter seen here, but that's a departure from the source class. It's almost like a qinggong paladin, which isn't necessarily bad. Currently you're at a weird phase where you're between adding options and replacing abilities. And right now, it seems like you're replacing mercies twice. That's not good.
I'd recommend going full on one way or the other. But that's just a single opinion. Also, it's ok to replace abilities with new ones at different levels, but it should be avoided.
Above all, the most important thing is being balanced.
I'm a big fan of options, so I'd be fine with replacing features with choices (it's what I did when I redid the hunter seen here, but that's a departure from the source class. It's almost like a qinggong paladin, which isn't necessarily bad. Currently you're at a weird phase where you're between adding options and replacing abilities. And right now, it seems like you're replacing mercies twice. That's not good.
I'd recommend going full on one way or the other. But that's just a single opinion. Also, it's ok to replace abilities with new ones at different levels, but it should be avoided.
Above all, the most important thing is being balanced.
I see what you mean. I'm liking the surge option taking place of mercies. Any ideas for more surge options?
As for Divine Initiative, what abilities do you think it should replace? Channel Positive Energy? An aura as well? It can be diminished to balance with the ability replaced (like only goes up to +3 if replacing heavy armor proficiency and Channel Positive Energy). At this point I'm sick, literally, and can't really put all my thoughts together. Any other suggestions would be helpful.
Alright Round 3.
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Class Skills: A Liberator adds Bluff and Escape Artist to her list of class skills. These replace the paladin's Diplomacy class skill.
Divine Resolve(Ex): At 3rd level, a liberator is immune to all poisons. This ability replaces the paladin's Divine Health.
Divine Initiative (Su): At 3rd level, the liberator is blessed with uncanny reflexes and vigor. He is granted the ability to act in all surprise rounds of combat. The liberator is also granted a +1 sacred bonus on attack and damage rolls during surprise rounds and the first rounds of combat. Every three levels beyond 3rd, the sacred bonus increases +1 to a maximum of +5 at 15th level.
Starting at level 9, the liberator may expend a use of his Lay on Hands ability to extend this bonus to an addition number of rounds equal to his Charisma modifier. This ability replaces the paladin's mercies.
Divine Charge (Ex): The Liberator's willingness to charge into battle to help those in need requires poise and a lack of encumbrance. Upon reaching 4nd level, the liberator can charge an additional 10 feet and doesn't incure the -2 penalty to her AC.
Upon reaching level 10, the liberator can charge equal to double his base speed and adds his Charisma modifier to the attacks or combat maneuvers made during a charge, but not damage. This ability replaces the paladin's heavy armor proficiency and Channel Positive Energy abilities.
Divine Bond (Sp): The liberator removes axiomatic, flaming, flaming burst, and merciful weapon special abilities and adds anarchic, shock, shocking burst, and defiant to his available weapon special abilities. Otherwise this acts exactly like the Divine Bond gained by the paladin at level 5.
Aura of Freedom (Su): At 11th level, the liberator acts as though he is continually under the effects of the freedom of movement spell. He also applies his Charisma bonus to all Escape Artist checks and CMB checks to escape grapples. Each ally within 10 feet gains a +4 morale bonus to Escape Artist checks, CMB checks to escape grapples, and saving throws against becoming entangles, paralyzed, or slowed.
Code of Conduct: The liberator must be of chaotic good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if he willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a liberator's code requires that he help those in need, respect individual liberty, and punish those who either threaten or curtail personal liberty."
Associates: Same as a standard paladin, except a liberator only accepts henchmen, followers, or cohorts of chaotic good alignment.
Ex-Liberators: A liberator who ceases to be chaotic good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and class features (including the service of the liberator's mount, bu not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may no progress any further in levels as a liberator. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations, as appropriate.
I feel this is probably the closest to being balanced I've gotten. I still feel that there should be either:
I'm at a creative block again. I'd appreciate any input.
Hope everyone is having a Merry Christmas!
So I had some time to think of options to add to Divine Initiative.
I can up with:
I also thought with Divine Charge I could double the critical range for the wielded weapon (not stacking with Imp Crit or keen).
I don't know if the Liberator needs anything more, but those are some of my ideas that could be added.
Thanks for all the input and help!
Anybody else have any ideas?