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| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I have seen this come up a few times in the last few weeks, and seen different answers:
If Character A ready an action (to interrupt something, such as a spell) that character B is about to perform, And that action he is trying to interrupt is something that provokes an attack of opportunity (such as a spell, or ranged attack)
Does character A get both his readied action AND the attack of opportunity?
I've seen people here say "yes", but I have never played with anyone that would allow this, 3.5 or Pathfinder or otherwise. So here's hoping we get a FAQ.
Below I go over some of the arguments I've seen. But I've seen people argue both ways and would like to get a more "official" answer. At the very least, no matter which way it is decided, we might get some clarification on a few things regarding readied actions.
I checked FAQs and can't find anything, past messageboard posts that are inconclusive by the end (seen some flagrantly wrong advice like touch spells provoking 2 AoOs). I've check the rules back to 3.5, and the rule only says you can ready an action to interrupt, but never say "you also get your Aoo". And thus you can argue it is not prohibited because it's not mentioned.
I've read arguments that say because the rule is "The action occurs just before the action that triggers it" Because of that you get the AoO when Character B goes on to take an action that provokes.
However: Everywhere I read on spellcasting, only the damage you take WHILE casting affects concentration, not damage you take before - even in the same round. Therefore, if the readied action is truly "before", it would not affect concentration.
So it seems to me: either your readied action is before the spellcasting, and therefore does not affect their concentration, and then you get another Aoo; or your readied action is after spellcasting starts, and interrupts spellcasting and affects concentration, but then you don't get an Aoo.
But, since it does not seem very conclusive, I'd like to get a FAQ and more official ruling.
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"I've seen people here say "yes", but I have never played with anyone that would allow this, 3.5 or Pathfinder or otherwise. So here's hoping we get a FAQ."
In the past 8-9 years, I've played with a couple of hundred people. While I've seen the question raised, once explained, I have never seen anyone who would not allow it. Actual instances during the game: about 15, I'd say. Interesting how people have different experiences.
Declined to FAQ.
What is more official than the rulebook?
You get your readied standard action (or move action if that is what you readied). We'll assume a readied attack with the trigger of a threatened spellcaster starting to cast his spell.
If you hit him, you might disrupt his spell.
If you miss, or if he makes his concentration check against your damage, then his continued spellcasting gives you an AoO.
I see no problems with this.
Readied actions go before the action that triggers them, AoOs go during the action that triggers them, so there is no question on the timing or the sequence of your actions.
And it's not OP because you could have chosen to NOT ready an action, attacked the guy, and then still got your AoO when he started casting, so either way you get two actions. Yes, with the readied action you get two chances to interrupt the spellcaster, but you also run the risk that he might tactically out-think you, such as taking a 5-step or even a move action to get out of your reach and then cast.
And if he does something like this, you LOSE your entire readied action, so it's always a risk - you risk losing your action and the payoff is that you get an extra chance to interrupt his spellcasting.
Seems perfectly fair, and perfectly defined in the Core Rulebook. I see no need for a FAQ request.
However: Everywhere I read on spellcasting, only the damage you take WHILE casting affects concentration, not damage you take before - even in the same round. Therefore, if the readied action is truly "before", it would not affect concentration.
Then you should read on combat, too.
Distracting Spellcasters
You can ready an attack against a spellcaster with the trigger "if she starts casting a spell." If you damage the spellcaster, she may lose the spell she was trying to cast (as determined by her Spellcraft check result).
Clearly, the readied action has explicit rules to allow you to act before the action that triggers it and also has explicit rules that let you interrupt a spellcaster by damaging her while she's casting.
Sadly, they said "Spellcraft check" instead of "Concentration check" but this is obviously an editing error that should have been caught when they translated from 3.5 to Pathfinder. It doesn't invalidate the entire rule, it just needs to be errata'd to the correct check.
Yes you can do both... and the reasoning is simple... namely that it would be incredibly simple to slightly alter the timing of the readied action to still get both.
But either way.. the only exception to triggers is that each trigger can only provoke 1 aoo regardless of abilities. A readied action is not an aoo so it can work on the same trigger like "if a threatened enemy starts casting a spell".
Readied actions also offer more variety since they can be any standard action and not just an attack.. so you could theoretically ready a grapple and get both the grapple and the attack of opportunity. Anyone who says otherwise is making up rules that don't exist.
Chiming in, yes, you get both readied action and the AoO.
- Gauss
Why would you ever ready an action to hit a spellcaster if it cost you the AoO? Why wouldn't you just use your standard action in the round, since under your rules you're somehow being PENALIZED for good planning and tactics?
What are the arguments against getting both? Not with regard to whether it's intended or a good idea -- I mean is there an interpretation of the written rules that would suggest otherwise? I don't see anything that suggests you wouldn't get both.
Yes.
Not sure why you'd think otherwise.
A readied attack has a 'trigger' that is defined by the player whose character is taking the action; this trigger is not defined anywhere in the rules, but is up to the player in question. The resultant attack is a standard action that occurs when the 'trigger' occurs.
An attack of opportunity has a 'trigger' that is defined within the rules, and is confined to only occurring under certain circumstances. The player does not define the trigger in any way. The resultant attack is 'not an action'.
If you ready an attack to trigger when a caster begins to cast a spell, then the attack that occurs is the equivalent of your standard action for the round; if you threaten the target, then you get an attack of opportunity which is a 'not an action' act.
The rules in no way imply that one denies the other; if you've been playing at tables where the GM does not allow this, then it was purely a house rule (and a bad one, in my opinion).
If you rule to have one deny the other, then you just houseruled Readied Actions nonexistent.
You might as well ready an action, as a standard action, to do nothing, in response to nothing, combined with a free action to wast time.
Not necessarily. You can ready an action with a ranged weapon; in order to take AoOs with a ranged weapon, you need the appropriate feats.
So there would still be some use for readied actions, but the fact still stands that the rules don't imply that one denies the other.