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The only restriction I am aware is on Age. Pg 7 in the PFS Guide.
A character can not be younger than the minimum age listed, and must be younger than venerable. A character that ages past venerable, for whatever reason, dies of old age and is removed from the campaign. Characters do not alter their ability scores as a result of this choice.
That said, if you are unreasonable in your selection of physical stats off the chart (15' tall human) you may be called out on it. So stay reasonable.
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Generally speaking, you're fine as long as you don't receive any mechanical benefits.
So if a creature grapples you and moves you, you don't get to start asking if it's strong enough to lift 750lbs.
If something is flying overhead, you don't get to say your 3ft sword plus your 7ft height gives you 10ft of reach.
You don't get a "size bonus" on your Intimidate checks against other, lesser Medium-sized creatures.
etc.
Or you just could make a City-Raised Half-Orc with the Pass for Human Feat.
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There's a Sczarni character played by one of our Golden State VOs that tips the scales around 500 pounds. I recall him saying that was the heaviest a human could be in PFS. FWIW.
If you played at my table, I'd probably ask that your character be within the guidelines set forth for each race. I mean, really, is there any difference between roleplaying as a 500 pound character, and a 750 pound character?
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg
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Generally speaking, you're fine as long as you don't receive any mechanical benefits.
That's what I'd say, too.
IMO, it's always better to have such a character at the table and have all the players imagine how incredibly fat the character is and what he would look like (which would result in some fun moments at the table) than just having a bunch of normally-built boring characters.Of course, as it had been said already, NPCs could move him around just as easily as they could any other character.
(Just imagine a thin, agile elf push around that fat heavy guy. That would surely create a fun mood at the table ;) )
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muscle does weigh roughly 8 times the same volume of fat, after all.
Where did you get that (wrong) piece of information? Fat is about 0.94 g/cm3, muscle tissue is 1.05 g/cm3, that's a difference of 12%.
If muscle tissue weighed 8 times more than fat, it'd be at 7.5 g/cm3...Iron is at 7.8 g/cm3. Olympic swimmers would sink like anchors if you were right.
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muscle does weigh roughly 8 times the same volume of fat, after all.Where did you get that (wrong) piece of information? Fat is about 0.94 g/cm3, muscle tissue is 1.05 g/cm3, that's a difference of 12%.
If muscle tissue weighed 8 times more than fat, it'd be at 7.5 g/cm3...Iron is at 7.8 g/cm3. Olympic swimmers would sink like anchors if you were right.
You're right of course, but most athletes with low body fat can't float anyway. What does water weigh anyway?
Edit: Oh yeah, 1.00 g/cm3 at a certain temp. Now I remember.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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I would be very reluctant to allow that character. Even 500 lbs you are talking about a lot of house rules being needed.
Encumberance effects?
Alterations to the Squeeze rules?
Penalties to being grappled?
Penalties to being Bullrushed?
Penalties to going down a narrow set of stairs next to a wall over a pit?
Also there could easily be areas where the character simply can't continue the adventure. (The party descends a hemp rope. What is the weight rating of the rope. If it's less than 500, how do they get him down there?)
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Neat, you're a human who's tall (with no extra reach) and heavy (with no mechanical changes). Why would anyone have any problem with this?
Why would GM's get upset about "color" surrounding a character? As long as there are no mechanical changes, the character could be the worlds tallest dwarf, or fattest halfling, or the elf lord with the pointiest ears.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Neat, you're a human who's tall (with no extra reach) and heavy (with no mechanical changes). Why would anyone have any problem with this?
Why would GM's get upset about "color" surrounding a character? As long as there are no mechanical changes, the character could be the worlds tallest dwarf, or fattest halfling, or the elf lord with the pointiest ears.
1) Folks aren't always confident that a player is totally cool with gaining absolutely positively zero mechanical advantage for making such a character.
2) Some folks' fun is greatly diminished by the presence of a character (or monster, or item, or whatever) whose description and mechanics are a glaring contradiction. See also: fitting longbow arrows into a wrist sheath, and giant snakes taking up square-shaped spaces.|
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I'm sorry, I must have missed the answer to my question from earlier.
Is there any difference between roleplaying as a 500 pound character, and a 750 pound character? They are both enormous and send the same message to npcs and other players at the table.
At a certain point I feel like people are pushing the rules just to push the rules.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Well, much as I *hate* BMI as a measure (I think it is a crude tool for measuring anything beyond broad statistical trends) it is really the only tool we have that we can apply to the character above without knowing a lot more. At 500 lbs and 7 feet tall, the character would have a BMI of ~50, and would be classified as off the end of the scale for "Super obesity" (That is beyond morbidly obese.) To put that in perspective, most Sumo wrestlers weigh in around 300-400, and Japan is trying to get them to cut down (because they have a life expectancy 10 years shorter than average.) In otherwords, you are pretty much beyond the scale where anyone would ever consider you healthy, and well into high level bloat mage territory.
at 750, you are carrying around half again as much weight. That is, for me, beyond the realm of suspension of disbelief for an adventuring character. We are talking about the point where you stop being able to move under your own power or fit through doorways.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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by the way, under the Pathfinder System:
tallest human: 78 inches
tallest elf: 80 inches
tallest half orc: 82 inches
your character: 84 inches.
Why does his mongrel heritage mean he needs to be taller than all of the tallest people in any of his heritages.
Average human: 69 inches
Average elf: 72 inches
Average Orc: 71 inches
All three races are within about 3 inches of each other.
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Im going to guess you have never been seriously obese. I am right now no less than 350 lbs and I can tell you how much effort it takes to work a physical job and live a normal life at this size. if you think any human twice my size is an option for an adventurer you really need to strap a series of weights to yourself to get to 300 lbs. then grab 50 lbs of gear and walk a mile. now if that doesn't convince you it is a bad idea grab another hundred. Try to think rationally about what you are doing here, I know I am trying to get science in your RPG but this is just too extreme in my view.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Yes, there are people in the media who weigh 750 to 950 lbs.
They are effectively sessile outside a wheelchair. That is a lot of what I am basing my assumptions that this character would not be able to move. They also tend to die very early.
A better example for the limits of human physical size while still being an effective adventurer, your better example is Andre the Giant. 7 feet, 4 inches, 500 lbs. Note that to carry that weight, and remain an effective fighter, he had a high enough strength to pick up other people and throw them for distance, and enough con to drink over 100 beers at a sitting. (body mass helps with that, but only so far.)
He also died at 46 years old.
I assumed human / elf / half orc heritage because those races are pfs legal. I suppose I should have included Assimar and teifling, but if he has assimar or teifling heritage, he should be stated as one of them, as the outsider heritage would change a lot of things.
What you are effectively saying at this point is you want to have your character be a new race (mongrel) with a special power (unaffected by obesity) that allows you to have 3 times the racial max weight. In a home game, I would have less problem with it, but I would also make you pay for the advantages (bonus against bullrush / harder to carry off) offset by the penalties (can't ride most mounts.)
But not really PFS legal.
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Some further number crunchyness:
A 18 strength human has the leg strength to lift 520 lbs (max human weight + max lifting weight.)
you would need 22 str for your legs to lift 740 lbs. At which point you would still be encumbered.
FYI, the weights and encumbrances chart for strength does not include your own body weight. It is assumed your own body weight doesn't hamper you.
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There has to be a line drawn somewhere, and for medium-sized creatures it's 500lbs. Your 750lb character is not PFS legal, and if you sat down at my table you'd have to "slim down" first.
If you can claim that 750 is fine, who's to say 751 isn't? Or 801, 901, or 1001? Same thing for height. I see no reason why you have to push the boundaries just to have an enjoyable character.
There's not a lot of competition out there to be the fattest character at the table. I've encountered two Bloatmages in a year, and neither of them were as heavy as the Spring Attacking Sczarni I mentioned earlier. You're more than likely going to be the fattest character at the table. Be happy with that.
And if, somehow, you encounter another character with the same theme in mind, you can both take solace that your combined weight plus gear is over half a ton, and it doesn't have to turn into an OOC battle as to who can push the rules the most.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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FYI, the weights and encumbrances chart for strength does not include your own body weight. It is assumed your own body weight doesn't hamper you.Some further number crunchyness:
A 18 strength human has the leg strength to lift 520 lbs (max human weight + max lifting weight.)
you would need 22 str for your legs to lift 740 lbs. At which point you would still be encumbered.
I am aware of that. But under the rules, it is effectively saying "your body weight, within the racial limits, does not hamper you. I was attempting to extrapolate that to answer the question "if your body weight exceeded the racial max, how much would you have to weigh to be hampered."
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I would say in PFS that it would be advisable to play within the soft limits the rules present.
Table Variation is the key, as some GMs would rule (and they have the right) that your character concept is outside the rules of the game.
I would hate to see an entire character concept have to change because of table variation.
My advice is to create unique inside the box, not so far outside of it that you make reasonable and creative people uncomfortable with your choices.
My opinion is that your choices are so outside the realm of reasonable possibility without creating a new race, that I would not allow it at my table.
While you might not ask for mechanical benefit, other players may have their verisimilitude crushed when your 7' tall guy can't easily reach up 10 to 12 feet.
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I am aware of that. But under the rules, it is effectively saying "your body weight, within the racial limits, does not hamper you. I was attempting to extrapolate that to answer the question "if your body weight exceeded the racial max, how much would you have to weigh to be hampered."FYI, the weights and encumbrances chart for strength does not include your own body weight. It is assumed your own body weight doesn't hamper you.Some further number crunchyness:
A 18 strength human has the leg strength to lift 520 lbs (max human weight + max lifting weight.)
you would need 22 str for your legs to lift 740 lbs. At which point you would still be encumbered.
Ah gotchya.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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The Core Rulebook contains rules for determining the weight (and height, for that matter) of PCs. Unless PFS makes a specific rule to the contrary in the Guide to Organized Play or the FAQ, all rules in the Core Rulebook are used as-written.
Find a PFS exception, or make a character within the parameters of the Core Rulebook.
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The following section determines a character's starting age, height, and weight. The character's race and class influence these statistics. Consult your GM before making a character that does not conform to these statistics.
The GM for PFS is Mike Brock. Please consult with him before making a character that does not conform to these statistics.
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Jiggy;
In the CRB, under races, it only lists an average member of that race's height, without weight or ranges. SO obviously there is not restriction there.
Under vital statistics, it only provides a way to randomly generate height/weight - with no listed option for a range to choose from, or to make specific choices. And that is the only method I have seen in the CRB of determining height and weight. So are you saying every character in PFS is required both to;
A) be randomly determined, not purposefully selected
B) match the height and weight exactly (i.e. no overweight or underweight characters, but every human male on Golarion (or at least all PCs) who is 5'5" tall is exactly 155 pounds? And every 6' tall human female is exactly 180 pounds?In short, that means any 6'1" tall human female is illegal. And any 6'0" tall male who weighs anything outside of 190 pounds precisely is illegal. And any character who selected a specific height and weight combination, rather than randomly determining them, is illegal.
If deviation from that single method presented in the rules is allowed, then deviation is allowed.
Sure deviation is allowed. I would allow someone to sit who didn't fit the exact height and weight ranges. (the range is there in the rules, you just have to extrapolate it based on what the maximum and minimum you can roll on the dice is). I would allow it, if they maybe varied by 5 to say 15 percent. So lets say the maximum weight for a 6'8 half-orc is 300 lbs, that would mean I wouldn't care if you brought a 6'9 half-orc that weighed 335 lbs.
But when your deviation from the accepted norms is over 100 to 200 percent, that's where you go askew for me.
Lets look at monsters for a second, and the average sizes that determine medium to large.
All starting races are small to medium in size. Almost all monsters that are small or medium fall into those ranges. The only one I can think of that specifically does not, is the grippli which is almost tiny sized. My grippli is a big version at 1'10" and 25lbs. But that only deviates from say a gnome or halfling by a few inches and maybe 10 lbs.
Large monsters that are humanoid in nature are typically somewhere between 7' and 12' tall and weight roughly 3 to 4 times what a medium sized creature would weight. So extrapolating a half-orc that was large instead of medium, you could expect maybe 7'2 and 900lbs.
Your description of your mongloid human is a Large creature by all reasonable definitions.
I would allow some deviation, but I would not allow you to bring a Large creature to the table and have you say its only medium with no large mechanics.
In other words, no cake and eating simultaneously.
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Im going to guess you have never been seriously obese. I am right now no less than 350 lbs and I can tell you how much effort it takes to work a physical job and live a normal life at this size. if you think any human twice my size is an option for an adventurer you really need to strap a series of weights to yourself to get to 300 lbs. then grab 50 lbs of gear and walk a mile. now if that doesn't convince you it is a bad idea grab another hundred. Try to think rationally about what you are doing here, I know I am trying to get science in your RPG but this is just too extreme in my view.At 6'4" tall, in the best shape of my life with very low bodyfat, I was just a hair under 300 pounds. I am now nowhere near as good of shape, with a lot more bodyfat and less muscle mass, and I am ~ 280. At my worst, yes I have been over 300 (but not over 350).
But honestly, that is completely irrelevant. This is a fantasy character, not a physics or biology project.
A fantasy character in an RPG where characters are still held to certain rules of biology and physics.