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I have been reviewing my collection of pathfinder adevnture paths and pathfinder modules, and one thing that really stands out is that I like advantures where some effort is made to provide treasure that feels like some thought was put into placing it.
For example, if the adventure has approximately 50,000 gp worth of magical treasure, I prefer a ring, some potions, a few scrolls, a +3 weapon, and some miscellaneous items..say like flying carpts, bags of holding, and then a few non standard items.
I get so fed up with encounters where the treasure consists of the boss 10 thugs wearing +1 chain shirt, +1 battle axe, potion healing..etc..
It is just lazy design..I don't care if the rules allow the players to sell those +1 items and buy what they want, the point is those thugs don't need +1 items to be effective, you can always give them plate instead of chain. When I read over the adventure and find that 50% or more of total treasure comes from the opponent's gear, my eyes glaze over. It just loses something for me.
To give concrete examples, one reason I hate Council of thieves is the last adventure "the thrice damned path". All the adventure seems to consist of is beating on theives and thugs in +1 gear. Contrast that with the "6 fold trial" in the same path which has a variety of non standard +1 items, including a evil intelligent glaive with an interesting back story.
With one shot modules, this reason is a big consideration for me to buy I either buy or don't buy, with adventure paths its not as cut and dried, but my overall statisfaction with a path comes from how many of the 6 adevntures try to be creative with the treasure.
And I am not sure why this happens, but it seems that the pattern repeats itself where the 2,3,4 and 5thth adventures usually have some creative treasure, but the 6th adventure leaves me bored.
Specifically, this was a problem for me in Second Darkness, Council of Thieves, Serpents Crown, and most notably the Shackles, where I was so bored by the last adventure I refused to buy it, and has the dubious disntiction of being the only Pathfinder Path adventure I do not own.
Its one reason why a path might be better with one writer, its not realistic I know but if Richard Pett was writting all 6 modules I know I would love it. Nick Loque also a dream scenario. And of course, Erik Mona doing a solo job on a whole path would be like me winning powerball.
The simple solution is this: rework the treasure so it suits your needs.
For instance, I revamped the treasure for the Skinsaw Man; I eliminated the Ring of Jumping, downgraded his magic switchblade (sorry, "War Razor!") to Mastercraft, and gave him Slippers of Spider Climbing, which he used to attack the target from above (and then became everyone's pinata!)
It worked out quite nicely. The average treasure value was the same.
So you can always do the same if you don't like the treasures being offered. Though there is one thing to consider: it takes a day for a wizard to enchant armor or weapons to +1. Doing something fancy and expensive? That takes time! So you'll find lots of +1 items, especially weapons and armor (which take a 5th level wizard). You won't see lots of enchanted rings or the like.
Creative Director
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Yeah; if you want more unique treasure in your game, the best thing to do is adjust it to match your campaign. This has the added benefit of the treasure being more personalized to your table, which is a good thing.
I take exception to the critique of it being "lazy design" though. If we were to go through and detail specific histories and information about treasures in every encounter, the word count of the adventures would explode and we'd have to cut encounters and essentially shorten our adventures. Furthermore, if EVERY treasure is super detailed and unique... none of them will be. You NEED "bog-standard" treasures to set the baseline, so that when you do get something unusual, it feels special and stands out.
Certainly specific authors have an effect on the types of treasures in an adventure. So does the developer of the adventure.
And you can't "always give them plate instead of chain" because there are plenty of reasons, both rules reasons and flavor reasons, why you might not want to give a character plate mail.
The simple solution is this: rework the treasure so it suits your needs.
For instance, I revamped the treasure for the Skinsaw Man; I eliminated the Ring of Jumping, downgraded his magic switchblade (sorry, "War Razor!") to Mastercraft, and gave him Slippers of Spider Climbing, which he used to attack the target from above (and then became everyone's pinata!)
Yup-- I do that too.
In my version of the Skinsaw Man, I upgraded his war razor, making it an intelligent, evil-aligned +1 wounding war razor, inhabited by the spirit of a former cleric of Norgorber. After the fight was over, the blade attempted to posses the party rogue. (Itself a fun encounter.) And I also gave him an oil of darkness that he used to turn out the lights by pouring on the floor during the fight.
Yeah; if you want more unique treasure in your game, the best thing to do is adjust it to match your campaign. This has the added benefit of the treasure being more personalized to your table, which is a good thing.
I take exception to the critique of it being "lazy design" though. If we were to go through and detail specific histories and information about treasures in every encounter, the word count of the adventures would explode and we'd have to cut encounters and essentially shorten our adventures. Furthermore, if EVERY treasure is super detailed and unique... none of them will be. You NEED "bog-standard" treasures to set the baseline, so that when you do get something unusual, it feels special and stands out.
Certainly specific authors have an effect on the types of treasures in an adventure. So does the developer of the adventure.
And you can't "always give them plate instead of chain" because there are plenty of reasons, both rules reasons and flavor reasons, why you might not want to give a character plate mail.
Yeah, I see your points, and I am not saying every treasure has to say 100 gp peridot as opposed to one 100gp gem, but I guess my main frustration I was trying to get at when I said lazy design was if the max loot from the adventure is 100k, there isn't much flavour added when 50k of that is from +1 items owned by henchmen.
how is that "lazy design"?
how is that "lazy design"?
Look, I rather have the minions use regular or masterwork gear and have treasure distributed elsewhere. Call it old school mentality. It's related to my dislike of magic shops that was a result of what 3rd edition brought in and was carried over into 3.5, I actually like very much what Paizo has been doing in describing towns but listing what items are already available as opposed to assuming PC's can by anything within the gp limit.
Call me niggardly I just don't like the idea of every 2nd opponent having magic gear. I am not necessarily promoting low magic settings, but I do think having an abundance of +1 gear lying around cheapens the concept of magic items.
Funny thing is? This is one of my gripes with Paizo. I mean, I get into arguments about their 15-point builds... but I also run games where +1 weapons are not common, and my 3rd/4th level group has one single magic dagger (and a couple protection rings), along with an heirloom magic item.
You can always modify things to suit. I might do this with Runelords the next time I run it in probably five years or so. Or more. Of course, if I do that then I'll also be sure to not allow the Craft Magic feats, outside of Scrolls and Potions. I may also cut the amount of treasure as they won't be buying a lot of magic items (because of the rarity of magic). Though I will admit if I do this, I'll be setting Sandpoint in my own campaign world with my own pantheon.
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The thing that makes treasure suck for the most part in the Ap's and PDFs is the slavish adherence to the weblog table. Which IMO is and has been broken before it was ported over to pathfinder sorry SKR but that is the case. Give the baddies some good magic gear
I have never seen a baddie with a staff or an Anita paladin with an unholy avenger. Admires edge was a very cool item with a little more thought more items like that can be put in the game. How about custom items that affect class abilities. More unique companions for rangers Druids etc. an item that gives assimars angel wings. Or other races cool racial goodies. That would be a good idea. It might raise the power level a tad but that can be worked on. Give a custom item that mimics a mythic path ability. Just some ideas and I am not even a game designer.
Just so the pazio guys don't think I am capping on them Jason bulman is the man he led the team that made mythic the best product Pazio has put out so far. Warth of the Rightous. Looks like it is going to be great also the mummy ap looks good also
Iplan on buying the entire mythic line. Keep up the good work.