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As the subject. Is there anyway to make a weapon flurryable?
Long story short is I want a monk who can flurry with a katana.
Please don't suggest I reskin something. I'm aware that's an option but before I go there I want to see if there's already a mechanism in place.
- Torger
You can flurry with natural weapons through the Feral Combat Training feat, and there's a feat to make a deity's favored weapon flurryable, but unless you invent a katana god, no, you can't make a Katana flurryable.
Have you considered being a Sohei/Fighter? It'll take some levels, but it'll eventually work.
You can flurry with natural weapons through the Feral Combat Training feat, and there's a feat to make a deity's favored weapon flurryable, but unless you invent a katana god, no, you can't make a Katana flurryable.
Have you considered being a Sohei/Fighter? It'll take some levels, but it'll eventually work.
I've yet to give the Sohei a good look (so many archetypes so little time). I'll look into it.
dipping a level of cleric (or life oracle if the feat needs channel) wouldn't be my first choice but good to know the option is there.
Thanks all for the quick replies.
If anybody has any other sugestions keep em coming.
- Torger
Well there is also a sword of the sword saint somewhere which is a katana that monks can flurry with, but I think it is about 75,000gp. here is a link but it is probably not what you were looking for.
If I could convince my GM to let me commission that katana a bit at a time (ie the flurrying part first) that would do nicely.
Otherwise I'm thinking Paladin 4 / Monk X and that crusader's flurry feat will probably get the job done.
- Torger
Sohei Monk can flurry with most weapons after he hits level 4. He can also do so in armor.
Well there is also a sword of the sword saint somewhere which is a katana that monks can flurry with, but I think it is about 75,000gp. here is a link but it is probably not what you were looking for.If I could convince my GM to let me commission that katana a bit at a time (ie the flurrying part first) that would do nicely.
Otherwise I'm thinking Paladin 4 / Monk X and that crusader's flurry feat will probably get the job done.
- Torger
If you're interested, the cost of the unique ability would be the cost of the base item minus the cost of a +4 bonus, since the base is effectively a +5 and you need a +1 to have a special ability.
A +4 katana would be 32,350 gold, so treating it as though you were unarmed for purposes of feats and flurrying would be 43k.
You might be better off with the paladin/life oracle/cleric dip.
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There is a way to flurry with a katana. It requires 3 levels of fighter(weapon master).
A sohei may use flurry of blows and ki strike with any weapon in which he has weapon training.
Flurry with a Greatsword, or a decent reach weapon, sounds fun.
Flurry with a polearm is much simpler. Sohei can choose weapon training with polearms at level 6.
Note: while the sohei has light armor proficiency, he cannot flurry while wearing armor.
To save you time on your Sohei check, this is what you're after:
Weapon Training (Ex): At 6th level, a sohei gains weapon training in one of the following weapon groups, as the fighter class feature: bows, crossbows, monk weapons, polearms, spears, or thrown weapons. He may select an additional group of weapons for every six levels after 6th, to a maximum of three at 18th level. A sohei may use flurry of blows and ki strike with any weapon in which he has weapon training. This ability replaces purity of body, diamond body, quivering palm, timeless body, and tongue of sun and moon.Three levels of a weapon master (fighter archetype) would automatically give you weapon training in your chosen weapon.
I suspect that Sohei weapon training was intended to only allow you to flurry with weapon training groups gained through the Sohei class specifically, however it never makes that distinction.
Technically, this would work wouldn't it? Hmm.
That Blade of the Sword Saint is something I'm going to get as a Hungry Ghost Monk.
Torger you need to take one level of Cleric (Crusader) of Shizuru.
The level of cleric gets you the Channel prerequisite. Shizuru's favored weapon is the Katana. The Crusader archetype gets you Weapon Focus (Katana) at level one cleric. Then go right back into monk.
Shizuru's write up is in Dragon Empires Gazeteer.
At your next available character level feat take Crusaders Flurry.
I did exactly this with my monk in the Jade Regent AP after the party decided that they did not want Suishen. I took the sword from the treasure pile in disbelief and proceeded with this build.
Best of Luck,
Weslocke of Phazdaliom
Torger you need to take one level of Cleric (Crusader) of Shizuru.
The level of cleric gets you the Channel prerequisite. Shizuru's favored weapon is the Katana. The Crusader archetype gets you Weapon Focus (Katana) at level one cleric. Then go right back into monk.
Shizuru's write up is in Dragon Empires Gazeteer.
At your next available character level feat take Crusaders Flurry.
I did exactly this with my monk in the Jade Regent AP after the party decided that they did not want Suishen. I took the sword from the treasure pile in disbelief and proceeded with this build.
Best of Luck,
Weslocke of Phazdaliom
Thanks for the advice. Good to hear someone else had a similar idea and that would totally work but I think I'd rather go for a four level paladin dip than a one level cleric dip. It's just that all the cleric really brings to the table is two freebie feats (EWP and Weapon Focus), some domain abilities that will be stuck at level one and some level one spell casting. Unless the domains are really something special that doesn't sound super appealing to me.
Four levels of Paladin on the other hand gets me smite 2/day, a swift action heal, CHA to all saves, disease immunity, a level one spell / day and an extra point of base attack bonus.
I'm not to concerned about having to take EWP katana and weapon focus since the character will be human I can have those at 1st, then I just have to take Crusaders Flurry at 5th and I'm set.
I think this is the way I'll go unless someone jumps in with a new method.
- Torger
There is a way to flurry with a katana. It requires 3 levels of fighter(weapon master).
A sohei may use flurry of blows and ki strike with any weapon in which he has weapon training.Flurry with a Greatsword, or a decent reach weapon, sounds fun.Flurry with a polearm is much simpler. Sohei can choose weapon training with polearms at level 6.
Note: while the sohei has light armor proficiency, he cannot flurry while wearing armor.
The Sohei method is interesting but comes online a littler later than I was hoping for. Also all the mounted combat stuff out of the sohei archetype isn't something I really want to use and would feel like a waste.
Thank you all for the suggestion though, with a different character/build it might be an interesting way to go.
- Torger
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The Sohei archetype would not allow flurry with a Katana. The class features are written under the presumption that the character is a single-class character. Therefore the reference to "weapon training" only applies to those available from the archetype. Since the katana doesn't fall into one of those categories, you would not be able to flurry with it.
There it is, Champion of the Enlightened. (or of Irori?)
It seems to scale smite evil, lay on hands, flurry, monk AC, unarmed damage, and stunning fist at the same time. Might be an option for you if you're set on monk paladin?
I've looked at the class and it looks great provided I can convince my DM to wave the "must worship Irori" requirement since the whole plan is predicated on worshiping a deity with favored weapon katana.
I think I should be able to so I'll work the prestige class in.
- Torger
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The Sohei archetype would not allow flurry with a Katana. The class features are written under the presumption that the character is a single-class character. Therefore the reference to "weapon training" only applies to those available from the archetype. Since the katana doesn't fall into one of those categories, you would not be able to flurry with it.
That may be RAI, it is not RAW.
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The Sohei archetype would not allow flurry with a Katana. The class features are written under the presumption that the character is a single-class character. Therefore the reference to "weapon training" only applies to those available from the archetype. Since the katana doesn't fall into one of those categories, you would not be able to flurry with it.That may be RAI, it is not RAW.
Really? Are you going to be argumentative and say that the presumption doesn't apply here because the archetype is not in the CRB?
EDIT: clarity and tone.
The Sohei archetype would not allow flurry with a Katana. The class features are written under the presumption that the character is a single-class character. Therefore the reference to "weapon training" only applies to those available from the archetype. Since the katana doesn't fall into one of those categories, you would not be able to flurry with it.That may be RAI, it is not RAW.Really? Are you going to be argumentative and say that the presumption doesn't apply here because the archetype is not in the CRB?
EDIT: clarity and tone.
I'd rather not see this thread devolve into a RAW vs RAI debate about the legitimacy of a particular combo.
Is everyone willing to say that this combo would be allowed at some tables and not at others so we can move on.
- Torger
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The Sohei archetype would not allow flurry with a Katana. The class features are written under the presumption that the character is a single-class character. Therefore the reference to "weapon training" only applies to those available from the archetype. Since the katana doesn't fall into one of those categories, you would not be able to flurry with it.That may be RAI, it is not RAW.Really? Are you going to be argumentative and say that the presumption doesn't apply here because the archetype is not in the CRB?
EDIT: clarity and tone.
I'd rather not see this thread devolve into a RAW vs RAI debate about the legitimacy of a particular combo.
Is everyone willing to say that this combo would be allowed a some tables and not at others so we can move on.
- Torger
Did you read the FAQ? There is no debate. The Sohei archetype does not allow you to flurry with a katana. Period.
PS: FWIW, RAW vs RAI of a corner-case in order to prove the bigger question is kind of a staple of rules debates, despite the fact that "RAW" is actually a misnomer.
If you and your DM don't mind 3rd Party Publishers you can Look at The Talented Monk from Super Genius Games.
The Sohei archetype would not allow flurry with a Katana. The class features are written under the presumption that the character is a single-class character. Therefore the reference to "weapon training" only applies to those available from the archetype. Since the katana doesn't fall into one of those categories, you would not be able to flurry with it.That may be RAI, it is not RAW.Really? Are you going to be argumentative and say that the presumption doesn't apply here because the archetype is not in the CRB?
EDIT: clarity and tone.
I'd rather not see this thread devolve into a RAW vs RAI debate about the legitimacy of a particular combo.
Is everyone willing to say that this combo would be allowed a some tables and not at others so we can move on.
- Torger
Did you read the FAQ? There is no debate. The Sohei archetype does not allow you to flurry with a katana. Period.
PS: FWIW, RAW vs RAI of a corner-case in order to prove the bigger question is kind of a staple of rules debates, despite the fact that "RAW" is actually a misnomer.
I did, and if you'll re-read my response you'll notice that I took no position as to the legality of the combo.
But since your pushing it I don't see an FAQ entry that basicly says we didn't anticipate this aspect of multiclassing as being a blanket ruling stating that all unintended aspects of multiclassing are illegal.
The bonus feats ruling in no way speaks to weapon training.
You wouldn't allow this combo. That's fine. But the issue isn't nearly as cut a dried as you are presenting it.
- Torger
Just one level of Monk of the Empty Hand and you can use Flurry of blws with anything you can pick up.
If you and your DM don't mind 3rd Party Publishers you can Look at The Talented Monk from Super Genius Games.
Is that a base class or an archetype? I can't seem to find it on the SRD
- Torger
Ki Focus weapon enchantment. Costs +1 I believe. Expensive, but it goes what you want.
Just one level of Monk of the Empty Hand and you can use Flurry of blws with anything you can pick up.
I suppose that's technically true but the idea of my katana functioning as a club doesn't appeal to much.
- Torger
Ki Focus weapon enchantment. Costs +1 I believe. Expensive, but it goes what you want.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abil ities/ki-focus
I don't believe it does. Everything it lists is a specific monk ability but flurry isn't on the list. I expect the intent of the enchantment was to allow normally flurryable monk weapons to make use of those class features not to make non monk weapons flurryable.
- Torger
Just one level of Monk of the Empty Hand and you can use Flurry of blws with anything you can pick up.I suppose that's technically true but the idea of my katana functioning as a club doesn't appeal to much.
- Torger
Mechanically? Yes. Visually? No. After a while, you get better damage than a normal katana too.
The Sohei archetype would not allow flurry with a Katana. The class features are written under the presumption that the character is a single-class character. Therefore the reference to "weapon training" only applies to those available from the archetype. Since the katana doesn't fall into one of those categories, you would not be able to flurry with it.That may be RAI, it is not RAW.Really? Are you going to be argumentative and say that the presumption doesn't apply here because the archetype is not in the CRB?
EDIT: clarity and tone.
If you're using that as your example, go read the FAQ for Sorcerer Bloodlines. Sorcerer Bloodlines work for all spells regardless of class. As far as we know, that could apply.
First, to go paladin, you need some charisma to add to your Str, Wis, Con and Dex. Cleric has much better stat synergy and monks need every point they can get. You're going to have to spend 4 levels as a mediocre paladin: Not enough CHA to be a smiting fool, too much WIS that you get pretty much nothing from, either investing in armor that you'll retire soon or having terrible AC, losing out on a dozen skill points...Second, yes you're human so you've got the feats for EWP and Weapon Focus, but what else can you use those feat slots for? The cleric effectively gives you 4 feats: EWP, Weapon Focus, a level 1 feat and your human bonus feat. Being a paladin effectively eats 4 feats to give you two feats. You also gain access to spell activation items for EVERY DIVINE SPELL (like a wand of Divine Favor to make up for that lost BAB), and Shizuru has the Honor Subdomain giving you or anyone you touch a free second save against any ongoing enchantment (charm or compulsion) effects.
You do lose 1 BAB for dipping a level of Cleric, but that's pretty much it.
Don't just look at what you gain from going paladin, look at what you lose as well before you decide to spend 4 levels not doing your schtick.
Spell access isn't really a strong selling point to me. I figure a bunch of the same spells are on the paladin list anyway including divine favor. and according to the FAQ they're usable weather I have a CL or not.
Sure, Cleric gives me two more feats but truth be told I don't see this as a super feat intensive build. More are always nice but being able to tack some smite damage onto a flurry seems more appealing to me.
On the topic of the super MADness of the character I've considered it. I feel like as long as I can squeak out a 12 charisma I should do ok. I'll have to spend money on stat items for five stats it's true but on the plus side my weapon and armor costs will be relatively low.
Taking my second level as monk gets me my WIS bonus to AC and the dodge feat for free. That should get my AC up to not amazing but not garbage.
I understand that the character will be pretty middle of the road for his first 4 levels but I can live with that.
Now that domain ability on the other hand that intrests me greatly. Thank you for pointing it out.
- Torger
*EDIT* to be clear I think that either build is perfectly viable. I just think ultimately the Paladin one appeals to me more.
Mechanically? Yes. Visually? No. After a while, you get better damage than a normal katana too.Just one level of Monk of the Empty Hand and you can use Flurry of blws with anything you can pick up.I suppose that's technically true but the idea of my katana functioning as a club doesn't appeal to much.
- Torger
I suppose at third level I can even make it do slashing damage if nessicary.
An interesting idea. Thank you for bringing it up.
- Torger
I came here accidentally reading the title as "furryable."
This makes much more sense.
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If you're using that as your example, go read the FAQ for Sorcerer Bloodlines. Sorcerer Bloodlines work for all spells regardless of class. As far as we know, that could apply.The Sohei archetype would not allow flurry with a Katana. The class features are written under the presumption that the character is a single-class character. Therefore the reference to "weapon training" only applies to those available from the archetype. Since the katana doesn't fall into one of those categories, you would not be able to flurry with it.That may be RAI, it is not RAW.Really? Are you going to be argumentative and say that the presumption doesn't apply here because the archetype is not in the CRB?
EDIT: clarity and tone.
While I don't personally think so, I can definitely see how it might apply. If anything, I think we can agree that this is worthy of an FAQ question.
I came here accidentally reading the title as "furryable."
This makes much more sense.
The question is were you disappointed -_^
- Torger
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If you take 1 level fighter 1 level cleric then levels in monk at 3rd level you can get
Crusader's Flurry
You learned to use your deity’s favored weapon as part of your martial arts form.Prerequisites: Channel energy class feature, flurry of blows class feature, Weapon Focus with your deity’s favored melee weapon.
Benefit: You can use your deity’s favored weapon as if it were a monk weapon.
Shizuru god fav weapon is a Shizuru
Holy symbol of Shizuru
(Deity)
Titles Empress of Heaven
Alignment Lawful good
Portfolio Ancestors
Honor
The sun
Swordplay
Cleric Alignments
LG NG CG
LN N CN
LE NE CE
Domains Glory, Good, Law, Repose, Sun
Subdomains Ancestors, Archon, Day, Heroism, Honor, Light, (Revelation)
Favored Weapon KatanaSo 1st level take fighter feat(weapon focus,Exotic Weapon Proficiency).At 2nd level take 1 level in cleric. That 3rd level you get a character level feat, take Crusader Flurry feat POW you can flurry with your Katana. This works if your human. Other races this will take long to acquire. Have fun.
Well, the cleric class would grant him the EWP for free, so I'd say do:
1st—Cleric (feat: whatever you want, plus the bonus EWP due to favored weapon)
2nd—Fighter (feat: Weapon Focus (katana))
3rd—Monk (feat: Crusader Flurry)
The result is the same except you're not wasting a feat.
EDIT: also, if you don't want the fighter dip, and are willing to wait, take weapon focus at 3rd and crusader flurry at 5th.