Tieflings? Pfft. Lame.
Down with Paizo!
I also agree Tieflings are lame, but I do have to admit that's partially a personal prejudice in that I've never seen one played well. As a race, the are apparently very attractive to angry teenage boys and men who never grew out of being angry teenage boys because that's about the only way I've encountered them.
tieflings merely require a player that isn't an angry emo teenage boy
one of my tiefling PCs
was an apprentice conjurer focused on swiftly utilizing powerful elementals and had several custom feats built around both, safely summoning elementals, and making a small army of drastically nastier than normal half fiend elementals with the advanced creature template and a handful of free feats.
she was a half succubus (a cambion) whom was apprentice to a purple haired and sickly female Samsaran whom taught her to master the 10 elements of fire, water, air, earth, metal, wood, void, shadow, light, and spirit. she learned, first becoming her teacher's servant, keeping inventory in the library and bringing her, meals, snacks, and tea as needed. and eventually being chosen to learn to shape the 10 elements into animate form and command them in combat.
the shy, timid, and socially akward tiefling apprentice, opened up to her teacher, proving to be a promising pupil. 3 previous apprentices had died, a nephilim, a vampire, and a nymph. and she was the first to survive her education. the sickly wizard rewarded her with the right to keep the spare spellbook she used in her apprenticeship and was sent to gather a rare book called the Compendia Universa and told her that she would find companions to assist her.
she wandered for 2 years before being blindsided by brigands and saved by whomever the heroes whom become her companions would be.
she wasn't emo nor depressed, nor was she a child of abuse, just a shy and timid youth with a lack of understanding of key social cues.
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Anime isn't a bad inspiration for dnd characters, e.g. full metal alchemist, berserk or basilisk.
Anime isn't a bad inspiration for dnd characters, e.g. full metal alchemist, berserk or basilisk.
To be fair, berserk is pretty western. I'm okay with eastern inspired characters. I like seeing people do crazy or interesting things, which is what you tend to get in my experience. So long as its not the ninja with no name, face, and background. Pre conceived "I hate people who play this" ideas are something I usually try and avoid. Be wary maybe, but I'm not going to outright punish or kill them over it.
Are we still talking about racist/misogynistic pcs?
Did it include thralls or other low-status women?
Well, thralls are not people, so no. Low-status women are people, so yes.
But I think a low-status woman would probably stab you in the gut for suggesting she was the equivalent of a thrall. ;)
So, an anime character, as i have noticed most of your PCs are...
That's an awfully bitter response.
I wouldn't call myself an anime fan generally speaking, but what makes an anime-character inspired PC any better than an 20th century epic novel-inspired one?
Other than not liking/respecting one of them by default, of course.
So, an anime character, as i have noticed most of your PCs are...That's an awfully bitter response.
I wouldn't call myself an anime fan generally speaking, but what makes an anime-character inspired PC any better than an 20th century epic novel-inspired one?
Other than not liking/respecting one of them by default, of course.
Pfft, all my characters are Mr. Sin originals!
Anyways, nothing really, but different groups might want different flavors. The guy who likes Conan might get a long better with the group based on LOTRO than the guy who bases his characters on Rob Zombie Movies, or the otaku who wants his cat eared guy to wield a 12 foot greatsword. He might also like all of those things though, you never know!
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tieflings merely require a player that isn't an angry emo teenage boyTieflings? Pfft. Lame.
Down with Paizo!
I also agree Tieflings are lame, but I do have to admit that's partially a personal prejudice in that I've never seen one played well. As a race, the are apparently very attractive to angry teenage boys and men who never grew out of being angry teenage boys because that's about the only way I've encountered them.
(Sorry I cut the description. Brevity and all.)
I've actually never seen a Tiefling played what you would describe as 'emo'---correct me if wrong, but I would imagine you mean full of angst and pseudo-philosophical. (I did notice a lot of appeal for Drow, among those types when I was younger and some of my friends were really into the scene, and now Dhampir among some of the younger players, but I digress.) Tieflings I've always seen played like ludicrous caricatures of 1990s Anti-Heroes. That is, always played as an excuse to act like an anti-social jerkward. Every Tiefling player I've encountered was essentially Wolverine of the setting turned up to 11.
But again, I recognize that is a personal hang-up. Though it has created a pretty large mental block that makes me cringe a little inside at the thought of playing a Tiefling.
You know, I've never really run into that problem before, though I tend to study most groups carefully, and the groups I play with are usually quite mature, I suppose I am lucky so far, but how many people have actually seen a misogynistic (or even misanthropic!!) PC played out well?
Edit: Perhaps some players think it would be interesting to play a character like that, and find out too late that they cannot handle it?
I know it's not a bad thing, but after playing with three avid anime fans ( i am one myself), who always play half demon/rimelord child with a,dark past and being 10 years old with adult's stats, I've become leery towards that type of character.
she wasn't 10 and she was inspired by a minor character from a specific series of anime inspired vertical scrolling 2D bullet hell shooters. she didn't have a dark past. i don't think Voluntarily becoming your teacher's servant to pay for your Food, boarding, and Tuition really counts as Dark.
i don't always play half demons
i play a lot of
Planetouched (i like the things i can do with subtle extraplanar heritages, all 20something species, including variant aasimaar/tiefling hertiages)
Fairies (whenever given permission to play a tweaked fairy race of some kind)
Humans (of the exceptional variety, child prodigy PCs sound typical of me, but i play a lot of "older than they look" characters as well.)
and other races i enjoy are
Samsaran (so much flavor)
Changelings
Dhampir (i twist this trope as much as possible, Hazuki from Moon Phase is a typical starting point)
Homebrew races that catch my eye
Shifters
Nymphs (the thousand conversions of +0 CR nymphs)
+0 CR conversions of members of cute female mytholigical races
i can create a character and do them fairly well once i find a way to get around my processing delay.
If you can break out the old dragon mag and talk to your dm, a Gheden can be great fun (half-zombie).
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You know, I've never really run into that problem before, though I tend to study most groups carefully, and the groups I play with are usually quite mature, I suppose I am lucky so far, but how many people have actually seen a misogynistic (or even misanthropic!!) PC played out well?
I've run into that type of character/player, but it was never tied to any particular race.
On a related note, some people really trip themselves up trying to play the "jerk with a heart of gold" role because they tend to forget the heart of gold part. Basically a similar issue with all the Wolverine-clones that swamped the comics industry in the 90's. But this is something I've seen in Core Race characters more often than not.
Isn't Bill just a murderer?
My current character is a drow who...
* Was almost sacrificed for a dark ritual.
* Used trickery and malice to dominate a small town.
* Had to flee because the locals started thinking she was a vampire (and that very rulership was not sanctioned by any of the great houses).
* Has followed a path of hatred long enough to see how others have been hurt by similar circumstances and started caring about them.
* Now uses trickery and malice, assassinating/kidnapping/torturing/dominating those that would oppress the weak and helpless.
Not quite drow Robin Hood, but... it wouldn't be a stretch. Classic drow methods applied to a campaign of liberty.
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I never had a drow PC, but I was once a black dude named Abdullah ibn something or other, and he looked like Isaac Hayes on the cover of Hot Buttered Soul.
He was kind of a paladin, and was on a quest to cleanse the earth of the yabasallah (spider-people), but it turned out that the group I was playing with were all evil. It made for some difficulties, as you may imagine. I retired him after the end of the first quest, so, I guess he's still out there roaming around, fighting tyranny and arachnids.
I also played a LN(E) Charduni (the duergar race from the Scarred Lands) wizard. I don't remember his name, but, he was awesome. He bossed everyone around and was wicked rude EDIT: Oh yeah, he was also wicked racist. I wonder why I didn't think of him before. END EDIT: all the time and he had a goat familiar. In the Scarred Lands, there's a special troop of Charduni ram-riders and they are the badassedest. Anyway, I convinced the DM to let me have an immature one to bond with, and, well, you can probably imagine what the rest of the party said about me behind my back.
I will always remember how he died, though. The DM was running some Paizo module about seven sins or something, and at one point, we ran into a necrophidius. The DM didn't say it was a necrophidius, but he described it, and everyone just was like wtf?!?, but not me, 'cuz I'm a proud geek and I've been reading D&D bestiaries for over two decades now, and I thought about it, and puffed on my pipe, and said "Is it a necrophidius?"
The DM, who had been drinking heavily, became enraged, accused me of cheating and reading the module while he was in the other room, and subjected me to a full attack. I died.
I was, of course, bullshiznit, and stormed off in a huff. But when I came back they were still fighting the necrophidius and it had been joined by an iron cobra. And they were getting their butts kicked.
So, I went over and waited for my turn in the initiative and I played the goat. I had the goat grapple the iron cobra with his mouth and then take a five foot step and jump down an abyss, thus killing it and myself.
What, you say? Impossible!, you say.
Not if you cheat, say I.
Just got to say, I like the description of your characters, it made me smile. But every single arrogant, bossy, rude spellcaster deserves to be ripped limb from limb, and get the pvp greataxe. Way too many of those, always an excuse to be a dick. I've heard of groups not taking another one on, ha ha, after particularly bad experiences and repetitions.
Some dms get very angry with those that know the ins and outs of all monster manuals. It is using out of game knowledge (your character did not roll a knowledge check to know it was the rare and unusual necrophidius).
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Oh yeah, his name was Pavel Axelrod, which I always thought was a cool name, even if he was a Menshevik.
He was racist, rude and bossy due to his player race, not due to his character class. Charduni are the blessed race of the god of tyranny.
As to whether the DM was reasonable or not: the game ended at the next session which I attended, but didn't play in, when my lone, mild-mannered, female player started screaming "F*~! you! F#%% you!" at him, ripped up her character sheet and threw the pieces in his face.
Ah, good times.
...
Well I am sure there is a story there; and this is why I have off-paper backups.
...
Well I am sure there is a story there; and this is why I have off-paper backups.
o.O
That is why you have backups?!Do you regularly have confetti hurled into your face? Enough so that you feel it is prudent to keep backups at all times...
j/k
;p
Shield +2
+4 vs. confetti.
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All dwarves are racist. They have a racial trait that proves it (Hatred).
Excepting the ones that swap Hatred out. They can't be racist. It's in the rules.
So are gnomes then...
I had one player that wanted to play his character as a genocide-supporting racist... because of the hatred.
He was meant to be NG.
Excepting the ones that swap Hatred out. They can't be racist. It's in the rules.
All the replacements for hatred are just another form of racism though...
Excepting the ones that swap Hatred out. They can't be racist. It's in the rules.All the replacements for hatred are just another form of racism though...
Bond to the Land, Explorer, Gift of Tongues, Master Tinker, and Warden of Nature for the Gnomes. The latter-most I wouldn't consider racism because the creatures types are all either unintenligent animals/monsters or, in the case of aberrations, eldritch horrors that want to rule everyone.
The nature of our oppression sometimes renders goblins racist against vile pinkskins, alas.
Down with Paizo!
Vive le Galt!
All dwarves are racist. They have a racial trait that proves it (Hatred).
Relevant movie clip (NSFW language)
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I've had some hardcore man-haters in a game. I didn't care that it was an all-female group, I still made them tone it down or face the ban-hammer.
One faced the ban-hammer. So she didn't get to play with us again.
So... humanist over and above all other... ahhh, so he is a speciesist!
It could be kind of funny, in a daft deluded sort of way. Always seeing the animalistic nature behind whatever the elves, dwarves or others do.
I bet it was funny for a session or two. But I assume not every in the party is human.
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That isn't the problem. His characters aren't specieists in game. But check out this example.
One of the PCs is checking out an attractive elven barmaid. So, he asks me about her figure and especially about *ahem* bust.
My humanist player immediately chimes in to say this ''Dude, those aren't breasts. She isn't human. Those are teats'', killing the mood instantly.
Every. Single. Session.
And he does not see anything wrong with that. To him it's completely understandable that he has to correct our mistakes in assuming nonhumans are human. Because racism.
LOL!
I'd allow it.
Okay yeah that would be really obnoxious from the get go. I mean he can use whatever word he feels like to refer to body parts but if you start interrupting other people at the table to "correct" them about something purely semantic I would not stand for it. If I were GM, I'd give him a warning.
Ellis, he did it in character though. You can warn him, sure, and he can say he is playing his character and that is what his character says. Then what? You say he cannot say that?
I get these characters can be annoying, I remember a particularly annoying speciesist old wizard that was with the party for many a session. That was who he was playing though, and it fit into the setting and world (Grumpy Old Men: the Adventure! Just kidding, no one else was old as he was, or as prejudiced, but it still fit into Sargava, this old man had a problem with nonhumans and the natives--especially the followers of the mummy prince in the east). The dm is trespassing on a player's turf to say, no you can't say that or play your character like that. I make his personality and word usage here buddy!
To Toz,
Were the orcs largely chaotic evil raiders?
Ellis, he did it in character though. You can warn him, sure, and he can say he is playing his character and that is what his character says. Then what? You say he cannot say that?
I get these characters can be annoying, I remember a particularly annoying speciesist old wizard that was with the party for many a session. That was who he was playing though, and it fit into the setting and world (Grumpy Old Men: the Adventure! Just kidding, no one else was old as he was, or as prejudiced, but it still fit into Sargava, this old man had a problem with nonhumans and the natives--especially the followers of the mummy prince in the east). The dm is trespassing on a player's turf to say, no you can't say that or play your character like that. I make his personality and word usage here buddy!
To Toz,
Were the orcs largely chaotic evil raiders?
Hama said his characters "aren't speciesist-game", which I believe meant that the player was interrupting other players.
He also said that this was a response to his player asking what the elf barmaid looked like, so in this example it isn't possible for it to have been an in-character conversation.
That isn't the problem. His characters aren't specieists in game. But check out this example.
One of the PCs is checking out an attractive elven barmaid. So, he asks me about her figure and especially about *ahem* bust.
My humanist player immediately chimes in to say this ''Dude, those aren't breasts. She isn't human. Those are teats'', killing the mood instantly.Every. Single. Session.
And he does not see anything wrong with that. To him it's completely understandable that he has to correct our mistakes in assuming nonhumans are human. Because racism.
I wouldn't tolerate a pseudo-nerd speciesist like that for very long at my own table.
And really, if that guy isn't a professor of English language, then he should shut up either way.
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My group got together yesterday to make characters for Rise of the Runeplutocrats and three of the characters make the cut for mention here:
Trent Redwater and Griff Keytol: Shoanti warrior and druid, respectively, who are on a secret mission to find Chaney's Marauders (Dick, Tom, etc.), a group of Magnimarian rough riders who slaughtered their tribe. I came up with a Campaign Trait for them called "Palefale Hunter" (Giant Slayer adapted for Chelish humans) but they spontaneously changed it to "Kill Whitey."
Jack Truth, a black halfling who's mother, yes, named Sojourner, runs the Liberty Bookstore in Sandpoint which also serves as a destination spot for the Bellflower Network's Underground Railroad. Jack, however, strayed from the family cause and has dedicated himself to a life of fraud, theft and poisoning. He also looks like Samuel Jackson in Pulp Fiction.
Ellis, he did it in character though. You can warn him, sure, and he can say he is playing his character and that is what his character says. Then what? You say he cannot say that?
How do you correct someone in character who is talking to the gm? Unless you are maybe playing some sort of meta RPG where the GM is an in-game entity that talks to the player characters.
That isn't the problem. His characters aren't specieists in game. But check out this example.
One of the PCs is checking out an attractive elven barmaid. So, he asks me about her figure and especially about *ahem* bust.
My humanist player immediately chimes in to say this ''Dude, those aren't breasts. She isn't human. Those are teats'', killing the mood instantly.Every. Single. Session.
And he does not see anything wrong with that. To him it's completely understandable that he has to correct our mistakes in assuming nonhumans are human. Because racism.
I wouldn't tolerate a pseudo-nerd speciesist like that for very long at my own table.
And really, if that guy isn't a professor of English language, then he should shut up either way.
While i agree that such a player should not be tolerated, i have to say you should not only accept arguments from authority. One can be right about something even if they haven't studied it for years. And on the flipside one can be wrong about something that they have studied for years.
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My homebrew setting owes more to Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions than it does to Races-R-Us. So elves, halflings, dwarves -- the "elder races" -- are decidedly nonhuman. Not animals, but unfathomable, fey to a lesser or greater extent, and not to be trusted, because their ideas of morality are different from those of men.
And I like it that way. The whole "elves are just humans with pointy ears" and "kitsune are just humans in Furry costumes" thing sort of grates on me.