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For reference, Haunting Mist.
School illusion (figment) [fear, shadow]; Level bard 2, sorcerer/wizard 2, witch 2
Components V, S
Casting Time 1 standard action
Range 20 ft.
Effect cloud spreads in 20-ft. radius, 20 ft. high
Duration 1 minute/level (D)
Saving Throw Will partial (see text); Spell Resistance no
An illusion of misty vapor inhabited by shadowy shapes arises around you. It is stationary. The illusory mist obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature 5 feet away has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker cannot use sight to locate the target). All creatures within the mist must save or take 1d2 points of Wisdom damage and gain the shaken condition. The shaken condition lasts as long as the creature remains in the mist.
My questions are thus:
1) This is a figment and the mist is explicitly called an illusion, but the save is not noted as a disbelief save. Is that correct? Is it not possible to disbelieve the mist?
2) If it's not possible to disbelieve the mist, then is there any other way to protect your allies from it other than them not standing in it?
3) If it's not possible to disbelieve the mist, then does that mean deals Wisdom damage to you and shakes you? The effect is centered on you, after all.
I really want to like this spell, but it seems like without the (disbelief) tag on that save, it's worse than useless.
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I'd treat it as if the fog is effectively real shadow-stuff since the save doesn't negate the vision penalty, but the "shadowy shapes" within which cause the haunting can be disbelieved, and are automatically disbelieved by the caster.
I assume the problem arises from the fact that the mist cannot be saved against and thus the spell author neglected to specify that part but not all the effect should be treated as disbelief.
Does anyone else have any further insight into this? Should there be a (disbelief) tag in there somewhere or does it really shake and deal wisdom damage to the caster? Should this be FAQed?
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Mplindustries, those questions about Haunting Mist have already been asked plenty times. After searching through all the topics I didn't find a definitive answer but there is few things to note about it:
There is possibly a written mistake in either Will Save section or Spell Descriptor section.
If the spell is shadow, the target would be able to resist the effects of the spell which include 1d2 Wisdom damage and Shaken condition along with 20% chance for the fog to seem real.
If the spell is illusion-conjuration (not sure if it's possible tho) the mist is real (remember that obscuring mist is lv1 so this spell "should" be slightly better) and the Shaken + Wis damage isn't real and can be resisted per illusion rules.
It's not so good spell currently for the PCs, but you can find some more use with it with NPCs.
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Mplindustries, those questions about Haunting Mist have already been asked plenty times. After searching through all the topics I didn't find a definitive answer but there is few things to note about it:
When I searched for Haunting Mist, I found two threads, each with only four posts.
The first was asking about its range--the original poster (and at least one other person) misunderstood what 20' range meant. It obviously must be cast centered on you and it's just a 20' spread from there. Then someone raised the same points I did and the thread died.
The second was someone asking part of what I'm looking for--is the caster immune to the effects. The only person to respond was you. You told them they should have searched because the question had been asked before (even though a search turns up nothing like that now and he says also did not then). Then you suggested the caster had to be immune because: logic.
There is possibly a written mistake in either Will Save section or Spell Descriptor section.
Yes, I believe there is a (Disbelief) tag missing from the Will save. So, shouldn't that be FAQed then, rather than just dismissing the issue?
If the spell is shadow, the target would be able to resist the effects of the spell which include 1d2 Wisdom damage and Shaken condition along with 20% chance for the fog to seem real.
If the spell is a shadow, it's quasi-real, making it less likely that you can disbelieve it. However, it's also a Figment, and being unable to disbelieve it means it hurts the caster.
It's not so good spell currently for the PCs, but you can find some more use with it with NPCs.
It's only not good if there's no mistake. It really seems like there's a mistake, though. I imagine whoever formatted it didn't really know how to convey the correct information. I believe the spell was intended to be partially disbelievable, such that the save entry should read:
"Saving Throw Will partial (disbelief; see text)"
That would mean the mist is quasi-real shadow stuff that affects you no matter what, while the shaken/wisdom damage comes from a figment that can be disbelieved.
As written, though, it affects the caster and their allies equally, because you can't disbelieve it, thus preventing the caster from being immune to his own illusions clause from coming into effect.
I guess if nobody else has further insight on the topic, I'll just start whoring out for FAQ clicks.
How does this sound?
Haunting Mists
School illusion (figment) [fear, shadow]; Level bard 2, sorcerer/wizard 2, witch 2
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
EFFECT
Range 20 ft.
Effect cloud spreads in 20-ft. radius, 20 ft. high.
Duration 1 minute/level (D)
Saving Throw Will partial (Disbelief, see text); Spell Resistance no
An illusion of misty vapor inhabited by shadowy shapes arises around you. It is stationary. The illusory mist obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature 5 feet away has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker cannot use sight to locate the target). These illusions only obscure the vision of those who failed the will save
Each round on your turn. All creatures within the mist must make a will save or take 1d2 points of Wisdom damage and gain the shaken condition. A succesfull will save means the target has managed to disbelief the illusory effect and the target takes no damage. However, since Shadow Illusions are quasi-real there is still a 20% chance he must roll another will save (+4 bonus) each additional round he remains in the mist to avoid taking 1D2 Wisdom damage and become Shaken.
A shaken character who is made shaken again becomes frightened, and attempts to leave the mists to the best of his ability's.
The fear conditions only last as long as the creature remains in the mist.
A character faced with proof that he is dealing with a Shadow illusion has 20% chance that he must make the will saving throw and receives a +4 bonus on the check. If he can communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a +4 bonus on their saving throw
my dm ruled i should upgrade my version of the Haunting Mists to a lvl 3 spell and call it Greater Haunting Mists. seems ok, what do you guys think? how does it power level stand up to that of a lvl 3 spell?
There are a lot of questions to ask about this spell that do not seem well answered. On the surface to me, it looks like obscuring mist (conjuration) + a fear effect (necromancy), except that it is a figment and referred to repeatedly as an illusion. Weirdo's read of it makes perfect sense to me as a game mechanic, and I may choose to DM it that way myself because it makes sense, but the wording of the spell really does not support it.
As a figment and described as "An illusion of misty vapor inhabited by shadowy shapes arises around you," the clear implication is that the mist itself is a figment and can be disbelieved or seen through by a spell such as true seeing. But then the description of the saving through specifically notes "all creatures in the mist" which makes it pretty clear that the caster and allies would have to make this save and there is no reference to disbelief at all in the spell.
Clearly it is not intended to be a repeated wisdom damage spell, as that is way too powerful for a 2nd level spell.
Illusory mist is already a feasible and good application of the silent image spell (1st) level, but if the mist can be disbelieved, that needs to be stated in the spell description, as it is in silent image.
Fog cloud is a ranged 20ft mist cloud with a much longer duration and range for second level so keeping it balanced to that is important. but who affected by the wisdom and fear and how needs to be resolved. If it is an illusion (which it is) it seems that it has to be a disbelief save and thus knowing it was an illusion should prevent the caster or notified allies from being affected. If it is purely a haunting spooky effect then it would seem like the caster has to make the save too because some times, even when we know the jump scare is coming, we still spook out of natural reaction.