Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover
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Really? It might be considered cheesy by some, but it´s good to know, because it also makes some other builds possible that would else be horrible to play until level 5 or would need mulitclassing, which would also feel strange/cheesy.
What´s your other feat if i may ask? Character seems a bit fragile for a fronliner/flanker to me if you don´t take toughness or tribal scars.
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My response was to rebuilding the character.
Not to the specifics of feats and such.
If you cannot take the feat at 1st level, you can't take it at 1st level just because you are doing a rebuild.
This isn't a PFS specific issue, this is a game rules issue. You cannot have feats for which you don't qualify. And at 2nd level there is no way for you to have qualified for Exotic Weapon Proficiency, so you cannot take it with the rebuild. You'll have to wait until 3rd level like everyone else, or be an Elf and take a class that gets martial weapons.
Sorry if my response seemed to say that I agreed that doing this was legal.
Secondly, rebuilding your character specifically to gain some sort of an advantage, while perfectly legal, certainly breaks the spirit of the rule.
The rebuilds were instituted so that new players who aren't keen on the rules can build their character again without basically having a crappy build. It also allows experienced players to experiment with a build for a level.
But to twist the ability to rebuild into some sort of an advantage that you would never have gotten without a rebuild is definitely an abuse of the right to rebuild. And while perfectly legal, could certainly prompt campaign management to remove the right to rebuild (or at least further restrict it) should this type of abuse become proliferate.
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The option to rebuild your character states that you rebuild the character at first level before you level him up:
"Before you level up a character for the first time, you may change any
aspect of it except its Pathfinder Society Number."
You can opt to replace weapon finesse with another feat. Since you are rebuilding him as a first level character, your choices are limited to options you could select at first level. You could not, for example, replace Weapon Finesse with EWP for the same reason you couldn't take it originally at first level.
After rebuilding your first level character completely, you then level him up, using options available based upon your second level class choice.
Note, you can get EWP at 2nd level by use of the Ninja Trick(Combat Trick.)
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Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover
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I thought that it would turn out like this.
Still a good example for possible table variation.
I would not use the term abuse for this though. Most times one would do something like this, the builds are not so powerful anyway.
You could also be a half-elf and take the alternate racial trait for weapon proficiency.
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If they are rebuilding their character specifically to gain an advantage, then it is abuse.
If they are rebuilding a character because they are a new player and they either want to try something new or didn't like the old character or the old character plain sucked... that's what the rule is for.
If they are rebuilding because they were experimenting and the build turned out to suck or not be fun... that's what the rule is for.
The rule is not to gain some sort of an advantage that an experienced player wouldn't be able to get for their character without doing the rebuild.
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I thought that it would turn out like this.
Still a good example for possible table variation.
This isn't a table variation thing. The rule is clear about how rebuilding works, although it may have taken a couple of posts to get past an ambiguous post. Even if Andrew had intended to say that taking EWP with a first level feat via rebuild was ok, once the citation is on the table, any table variance would go away.
Table variance is related to rules for which there are alternate interpretations in an area where the rules are not clear.
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I thought that it would turn out like this.
Still a good example for possible table variation.
I would not use the term abuse for this though. Most times one would do something like this, the builds are not so powerful anyway.You could also be a half-elf and take the alternate racial trait for weapon proficiency.
It's not really an example of table variation. It's an example of Andrew not noticing what you where doing. He can not retroactively apply your lvl 2 BAB when seeing what feats you qualify for at lvl 1.
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Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover
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It's not really an example of table variation. It's an example of Andrew not noticing what you where doing. You can not retroactively apply your lvl 2 BAB when seeing what feats you qualify for at lvl 1.I thought that it would turn out like this.
Still a good example for possible table variation.
I would not use the term abuse for this though. Most times one would do something like this, the builds are not so powerful anyway.You could also be a half-elf and take the alternate racial trait for weapon proficiency.
Hey it´s not me!
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Going back to your original plan, take Weapon Finesse at level 1, then take Exotic Weapon Proficiency at level 2 with the Combat Trick. You can still use the wakizashi at level 1 and trade it in for the ECB at level 2. It sounds like you want both of those feats anyway. The only thing you are missing out on is taking another combat feat using a ninja trick.
Edit: alternatively, play an elf and dip a level of fighter. The +2 bonus to Int is equivalent to the human bonus skill point each level (better, actually, if you use knowledge skills), and the bonus feat from fighter is equivalent to the human bonus feat. On top of this, you gain an extra feat because you don't have to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
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Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover
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Oh come on, there are really cool ones.
True, some are better outside of PFS, like the bomb chain with an ifriit and firesight.
But the acrobatics and climb stuff is really good.
Pressure points is a great debuff.
Mirror image and vanish are obvious.
Forgotten trick was nerfed too heavy unfortunately, why they had to introduce this ki ring and some other stuff.
Also don´t forget about poisons. While restricted they still can make for a lucky shot.
[rant]
If only the ninja were allowed to craft his own poisons, but of course this has to be a alchemist only thing, so the steampunk fans get more stuff in a fantasy world.
[/rant]
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The wording for 1st level retraining was changed in the PFS Guide v4.3 to account for GM credit characters and 3 XP module play.
You may play a character through level 1 and then apply GM credit without actually playing the character and still retrain the character before you actually play it again even it now has more than 3 XP.
You may also play a module as a level 1 character with 1 or 2 XP resulting in 4 or 5 XP and still retrain the character before playing it again because you have not played it as a level 2 character yet.
But Andrew makes a very important point. If players start using the retrain to simply take advantage of avoiding a weak level 1 class in order to "start" at level 2, PFS leadership may decide to limit or remove the rule, such as only allowing you to do this with your first character.
If you want to "start" a character above level 1 or 2, etc. The GM credit rule works very well for this and is within the spirit of the rules.
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Be a human and combine it with Adoptive Parentage alternate racial trait and be adopted by Elves. Then I treat the Elven Curve Blade as a martial weapon and Heirloom Weapon trait works.
The Elven Curve Blade is still an exotic weapon regardless of how your character handles it, and is thus not a valid choice for Heirloom Weapon.
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What traits other than Reactionary give +2 initiative? I'd like to take armor expert, but I'm hoping to keep my initiative high as well.
There is at least one regional trait that gives you +2 Initiative, as well as the two racial ones, and there is a religion trait somewhere that doesn't give +2 but does other cool stuff that I hear people talk about all the time.
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Be a human and combine it with Adoptive Parentage alternate racial trait and be adopted by Elves. Then I treat the Elven Curve Blade as a martial weapon and Heirloom Weapon trait works.
Or I can play a half-elf and I just give up the human bonus feat instead of the human bonus feat and a trait.
What traits other than Reactionary give +2 initiative? I'd like to take armor expert, but I'm hoping to keep my initiative high as well. Anything a half-elf can take?
I don't believe the adopted social trait allows you to get Racial Traits. Which means you wouldn't get the weapon proficiencies of your adopted parents.
And the adoptive parentage human alternate racial trait replaces the bonus feat that humans get anyways, so you’d still be out a feat and you’d have to take a class (which Ninja is not) that grants all martial weapon proficiencies to get Elven Curved Blade.
I don’t see what the big deal is with having to wait an extra level to get the proficiency. Everyone has to deal with this sort of thing when building a character. There is always one more feat or trait that you can’t get yet that you want.
Although if you really want to waste your human feat on this, then take adoptive parentage human alternate racial trait and get the Tengu sword training, which does allow you to use exotic weapon proficiencies, and you'd get the free proficiency in Elven Curved Blade.
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Yeah, thanks. Caught that after I posted, so I went back and edited.
@OP: Is the only reason you want the Elven Curved Blade is because its the only weapon that does 1d10 damage that is weapon finessible? Because to be honest, theme-wise, unless you are an elf or half-elf, the elven-curved blade makes no sense for a ninja.