And my argument for it would be that i could still try to swipe at an opponent with the spikes in the gauntlet without letting go of the reach weapon. But let me know either way.
dont get me wrong, I think it makes sense to be able to do what you're doing. In fact I think its really smart, to do it. It just that the rules present the gauntlets as a one handed weapon which couldn't be wielded at the same time as a two handed weapon. Honestly the biggest reason I bring it up is my feeble attempt to survive. I'm pretty much dead as if I step in your reach you just step back and smash me again, and if I do as is, I get smashed 1 action sooner. Your build is pretty legit. Funny thing is I think you could trash the halfling on his roc because you take up a 5 ft cube and reach another 20 ft (20+5=25 the max size of the room) :)
It does appear to be a common technique, and I haven't much questioned it thus far, but honestly I am having difficulty finding anywhere it says that it's allowed to threaten one area with two hands and another using one of the same two hands. It seems as though at the end of Rolg's turn he would need to make the decision to take one hand off of his hammer (opening up his gauntlet to threaten his immediate area). Taking a hand off of a weapon's haft is a free action, but free actions are not allowed during an opponent's turn (in order to adjust the weapons to threaten them). It does appear that Rolg needs to choose between the 5-10 ft. threaten and the 10-15 ft. threaten for each of his opponent's turns (on his own turn, however, Rolg could change his handedness as part of any other action, allowing him to essentially threaten both areas). All of this said, literally the exact effect Rolg has been trying for with the gauntlets would work with armor spikes, and it is my assumption that if Rolg hadn't thus far been allowed to use his gauntlets, he would certainly be using spikes. If Rolg is alright with it, we can play out this battle using the hand-swapping rule, but in Rolg's defense he has used the gauntlet in every bout so far, and the exact effect is replicable with a very minor equipment change, so I can see the reasons for proceeding as though he has armor spikes instead of the gauntlet.
Also, in regards to the Roc discussion, Rolg actually often takes up at 10 ft. cube.
Thanks, Arbiter. The armor spikes were going to be my next move if you ruled this way. Considering the fact that my current budget usage would allow for armor spikes instead of spiked gauntlets, I'd like to proceed as if those are on his character sheet instead of the spiked gauntlets.
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Grogg, you okay with that? If not, I can understand it (it is my misunderstanding, after all, and I don't want anyone feeling like they lost unfairly).
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In hopes of moving this thing forward, I'm gonna go ahead and roll AoO's based on your last action, Grogg. If you think it unfair that i get the use of armor spikes, or if you'd like to revise your actions based on any new information we've uncovered, let me know, and we'll go from there.
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As the vile little gun-wielder fires and flees (the shot was successful, btw), Rolg unleashes a pair of reactive strikes. Surprisingly, both are aimed at knocking the little goblin on his little green butt.
I get two AoO's that Rolg will use to try to trip the little guy. If the first AoO successfully trips Grogg, the secodn will be a standard attack AoO (against the now-prone target).
Arbiter:
Trip 1d20 + 10 ⇒ (13) + 10 = 23
Trip 1d20 + 10 ⇒ (14) + 10 = 24
Damage 3d6 + 12 ⇒ (3, 4, 1) + 12 = 20
Trip AoO #1: 23 vs. Grogg's CMD or he's prone.
Trip AoO #2: 24 (If the first was successful, this is actually a standard strike, with 20 Damage)
Let me know how all this resolves, so I can make my Round 2 actions.
The dwarf slams the hammer head twice more on the goblin's small body, the now-familiar thunder of the hammer crushing a body into the blood-smeared sands ringing out in response.
2x CDG with the hammer...
Arbiter:
6d6 + 24 ⇒ (6, 6, 3, 3, 3, 2) + 24 = 47
Damage 47
Arbiter:
6d6 + 24 ⇒ (2, 4, 2, 6, 4, 3) + 24 = 45
Damage 45
Releasing his battle frenzy, Rolg slams back down to his natural size, staggering a bit through the fatigue. He stomps over to the goblin-squishings and pushes the bigger chunks around with the butt of his hammer.
"Skitten liten jævel," he mutters before picking up the grime-crusted musket. He holds it up victoriously and laughs to the crowd. He then tosses it carelessly back on Grogg's corpse before heading back through the southern entrance.
Dwarven:
"Filthy little bastard."
Well, good game, Grogg. I'll wait for ARbiter's official close, I guess.
lolz nice touch with the musket. I'm not gonna lie, I'm hosed against anyone that gets big (20 ft threat is pretty awesome), but I'm looking at the spell casters, ranged people, and a few of the fighters and I feel like I'll give them a good poking, assuming of course I roll more than 1s and 2s on damage...
Yah, that damage thing could have gone a much different route (and forced a very different route to the match). Sorry to see you lose your first match (but selfishly happy not to see Rolg's first loss). :)
hehe I have a feeling that you'll kill most people, just watch out for the little munchkins that go invisible. I know there are atleast 2 of them. And I'm serious, you should challenge the halfling and freak him out when you hit him while he's flying. The only thing I would worry about is him flying back and forth but that shouldn't be to hard to deal with.
I hope to be able to kill most competitors. I'm not sure how long my streak can last, but it's only gonna get tougher... the competition is getting steeper constantly.
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And i've been hesitant to challenge anyone, really. But I certainly won't turn down any challenge.
Rolg steps into his first challenge match, scowling at the tiny challenger with as much disdain as he can muster. Full gear write-up in profile, just switch spiked gauntlets for spiked armor.
"Du fikk se hva som skjedde med den siste grønne snørr som kom inn her, ikke sant?" he grumbles as he tosses the two additional polearms down at his own feet, swirling the vial in his off-hand. "Minst han hadde god følelse å ta med et våpen."
Dwarven:
"You did see what happened to that last green snot that came in here, right? At least he had the good sense to bring a weapon."
"Stupid dverg, jeg trenger ingen våpen," the little goblin would respond as he pulled forth a concoction from his raggedy clothing. Once done speaking, he would chug the concoction to astonishing effect. As the liquid took its effects, the little goblin's skin would thicken while his nails and teeth elongated.
Arbiter:
Standard Action to take Mutagen (+4 Dex/-2 Wis, +2 Natural Armor).
"Ha! Dette snørr kan snakke!" Rolg barks out, just before throwing his head back and shooting his own vial of thick liquid. As he drops the now-empty container in the sand, his limbs thicken as his skin takes on a greenish-brown tint with a bark-y texture.
He steps forward, now gripping his long hammer in both meaty hands, "La oss gjøre dette, Snørr!"
Rolg's lip peels back in a half-smile, "Jeg hører en masse store ord fra en så liten snørr…"
Dwarven:
"I'm hearing a lot of big words from such a small snot…"
He draws a scroll from his case and mutters a few words as he continues his slow approach. The scroll dries up like a winter-old leaf and floats away as the dwarf strains with eyes and ears to catch any hint of the now-invisible opponent.
Perception to locate Gnasher: 16 (not that I'm thinking I really have a shot, but ya never know)
I'm still lost on how durations work sometimes so I'll go ahead and end it now. It should have only lasted for 2 rounds as is
Suddenly, out of no where, the little goblin would appear (C11) with a scream of rage before charging (Simply used for description, he's not actually charging.) forward at the massive dwarf (Aim is to reach F12).
You get an attack of opportunity. I'll wait for you to roll it since the rest of my turn will depend on how it rolls out.
Arbiter:
Free Action to Rage for +4 Dex.
Move action to move to F12.
Will finish turn after Attack of Opportunity is resolved.
ROLG GOES FIRST DAMMIT! :D
… and no dice on that AoO attack (you must be getting sucky rolls… which I fully appreciate).
As the goblin moves, Rolg takes a pair of tripping swipes with the huge hammer (one as Gnasher moves out of his original square, and one as he moves out of G.11 – Large reach with a reach weapon threatens both of those, unless I'm mistaken).
Ah, I forgot the extra reach with the hammer so you will get the attack of opportunity, which will trip the poor goblin and then your attack will go off. The attack will land, but that is where I will step in with an immediate action of my own. Ho ho ho.
But so I have this right let me ask a question. If you manage to trip him in his first square, you still get to make an attack, correct?
The large dwarf's mighty lucerne hammer would sweep the poor goblin's feet out from beneath him before coming back in an attempt to squash him. However this little goblin was rather fond of life and as the hammer started to connect, the little goblin started to roll.
Rolling upon the ground, the little goblin would roll right up to Rolg. (Move over to I15, this movement does not provoke from Rolg)
Arbiter:
Immediate Action to use Roll With It to try and negate the damage and roll to J15.
Acrobatics Check1d20 + 20 ⇒ (11) + 20 = 31
Staggered: 1 Round
If I become staggered for 1 round during my turn, does that mean I'm no longer staggered on my next turn?
The trip didn't deal any damage, so that initial trip AoO wouldn't' trigger your Roll With It feat. So, you're prone in F.12 (cause that's where you provoked and were successfully tripped). That's the end of that AoO. Then, if Gnasher wants to do anything but lie there for the rest of his round, he'd have to do so. Unless there are some other special abilities, standing up or continuing to crawl would both provoke, and in either case, Rolg would respond with the second AoO hammer-strike.
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In both cases, the followup hammer-strike kicks Roll With It into play, in which case your immediate action would send Gnasher careening over to your desired square.
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And I believe the Staggered condition would persist through next round, as you wouldn't become staggered until the middle of this round. I could be wrong (in which case Arbiter should make the call)
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So you'd be prone, out of actions, and staggered at Rolg's feet, and it's Rolg's turn.
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If you think Staggered should be gone when your turn comes back up, I'd like to hear from Arbiter on this before taking my turn.
Also, since your Immediate action was just taken up, if I made a successful attack on my round, would you be able to use another immediate action or not?
So your attack is for when he uses his standard to stand up instead of attack? Which in turn would activate his Roll With It, correct? And if that is so, then is there something preventing him from finishing his standard to stand up?
Durations are something that are rather vague from what I've seen. Its one of those things were there should probably be some kind of ruling on it.
Both attacks were AoO's, Rolg's readied action hasn't actually been adjudicated yet because i'm waiting to hear how this specific set of actions is resolved first.
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And yes, durations are vague, but here's my logic. You gained the Staggered condition half-way through your round (after your move action but before any other actions). So, since you gained the Staggered condition, your round was over, which would mean the 1 round duration would last until the end of your following round.
Also, since your Immediate action was just taken up, if I made a successful attack on my round, would you be able to use another immediate action or not?
I could still use an Immediate Action on your turn. When you use an Immediate Action when its not your turn, it eats up your Immediate/Swift Action for your next turn.
Gladiator_Eben wrote:
Both attacks were AoO's, Rolg's readied action hasn't actually been adjudicated yet because i'm waiting to hear how this specific set of actions is resolved first.
. And yes, durations are vague, but here's my logic. You gained the Staggered condition half-way through your round (after your move action but before any other actions). So, since you gained the Staggered condition, your round was over, which would mean the 1 round duration would last until the end of your following round.
Basically, I will stand when you trip me since I can no longer make an attack. You'll hit me and I'll roll over to you, negating the damage. As for the staggered condition, I say it should probably stay in effect for the next round. However, what keeps him from finishing his move action to stand up when he finishes rolling over to you?
I could still use an Immediate Action on your turn. When you use an Immediate Action when its not your turn, it eats up your Immediate/Swift Action for your next turn.
Just re-read the rules for Immediate. gotcha.
Hirtz Factor wrote:
As for the staggered condition, I say it should probably stay in effect for the next round.
Cool.
Hirtz Factor wrote:
However, what keeps him from finishing his move action to stand up when he finishes rolling over to you?
Well, you used a second move action to stand up. Rolg successfully hit you. If you hadn't done your immediate action, you'd take the damage and be standing up. As it is, your immediate action –triggered by the damage triggered by your use of your move action to stand up – is what makes you prone, so I don't see how you could finish your standing up move action after all that. Again, if you disagree, we can have Arbiter make a ruling.
I don't think one of those conditions is dependant on the other. Rather, both conditions are created by you using Roll With It. Your second move action to stand was successful. Then, your Roll With It kicked in when the damage was dealt (and even though the nature of AoO's/immediate actions is to interrupt and resolve before the triggering action, the action to stand up was still resolved successfully). Then Roll With It kicks in and you're both Staggered and Prone at the end of the movement.
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I'm happy to have Arbiter make the call, though. Once the call has been made (one way or the other), I'll resolve Rolg's readied action.
If the move action to stand up was successful, there is no reason he would be prone. He would have to run into someone or something for Roll With It to make him prone. Your 18 damage rounded up is 20, and he moved 20 feet without running into anything. Good ol' diagonals.
A line from Rolg's bottom-right is unobstructed to all squares of Gnasher's initial square.
Arbiter:
1d20 + 10 ⇒ (4) + 10 = 14
Aoo to Trip: 14 vs. Gnasher's CMD
Pretty sure that's a miss, so i'll go ahead and act. If it's a hit, let me know and I'll amend my actions.
Round 6
Rolg, to the booing of a crowd starting to turn on him, once again dodges around the pillar in an effort to create some distance between himself and the persistent pest.
Arbiter:
Move to I/J 14/15
Readied Action PM'd to Arbiter
Move to I/J 14/15 (provoking an AoO from Gnasher).
Sorry this is dragging on. I'm not trying to be an ass-hat and grief you or anything. I just really, really, really don't want to allow Gnasher a full attack. :(
Oh no, I can understand that. He's a scary little goblin and we're still early into the arena so this just helps work things out for later matches as well.
As for cover, I'm still not sure if that movement from him provoked. Either way, that failed so I'll continue moving forward.
