How much control does / should a GM have over a PC?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Darth Grall wrote:
Lamontius wrote:

but what if I am a barbarian-unicorn or a vampire warrior-jumper?

You may be joking about the Barbarian Unicorn but those stats for only a 4 HD level adjustment, it wouldn't be bad for a monster PC game...

And +1 for what I presume is a Penny Arcade Reference.

I'm jumpin' IN!

WRAAUGH

Silver Crusade

Icyshadow wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
shallowsoul wrote:
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but sometimes things get added to a PCs backstory whether they like it or not due to their actions in game or even actions beyond their control. I've had PCs framed for murdering the King's daughter and they were hunted, which became a part of their background. You don't need permission to do these types of things.

If it happens after the game starts it's not part of their backstory any more, so the point is moot.

shallowsoul wrote:
What I would have done is sent a group of celestials to either kill you and or capture you (aka make another character if you don't get away). If you did survive or escape then plan on looking over your shoulder for the rest of your life.

To what purpose?

What kind of fun does that provide for anyone involved except schadenfreude on the GMs part?

I basically agree with shallowsoul here.

The player wrote a backstory that says "I pissed off a bunch of celestials." They're going to be after him. Much like if he wrote a backstory that said "I pissed off the king". The king would be after him.

Now, I wouldn't have a dozen hound archons or a Solar show up at level one. I'm not going to just kill him with no chance. I'd find reasons to keep it challenging, but not overwhelming, but it would be an ongoing thing in the game.

Considering that Celestials are supposed to be GOOD, they'd probably force him to repent in some way or set him up on a quest to redeem himself, unless he's so evil that he could potentially become a threat. And at level 1, a lone sorcerer would hardly be a threat even to the big angry brute living next door let alone to a celestial of any rank.

I think that is a little misconception as to the nature of some celestials. There is a difference between being a good mortal and being the physical embodiment of good. Some celestials destroy evil on sight. They aren't paladins and they aren't Jesus who thinks everyone may possibly be saved, especially when it comes to demons, devils and everything associated with them.


shallowsoul wrote:

I don't throw things at a party that they can't handle but I will let them know that there is a dragon in that cave over there but you can't handle it right now.

If your background is that of a dragonslayer then don't be surprised if dragonkin take notice and come after you or if you are the last if a line of kings then don't be surprised if a group of assassins are trying to kill you to destroy the line from here...

I don't think people are against either of those things. That's sort of the thing that the GM does all the time. Its not adding "Well you have an orc grandpa and he..." or "Your daughter you never knew you had...". Its using what is given. Unless this sets them up for a TPK (which it doesn't look like you will) I don't see anything wrong with that. Dragon slayer background could very well be someone who wants dragons in the game. If he however was entirely against having dragons of any sort, I might question him on it(probably at character creation).

Now, there are other cases I might have a problem with. This however is definitely not one. "Your daughter died..." while dramatic, may be something the player never wanted. I know people who would cry if you killed their cat in game. In that case its a bad idea to mistreat that cat.

Dark Archive

Not that Shallowsoul is advocating this, but can't a celestial hit squad effectively be CR 1 type creatures vs. a level 1 player and group? Using similar bloodlined NPCs (at level), Clerics/Pallys or CR appropriate Celestial templated monsters or animals?

On another point - if you have a detailed background I think it's more than fair game for the DM to create a few encounters related to that background. Nothing that would function at the levels of 24/7 distraction, but something that could or should be a consideration over the course of that characters life?


Blake Duffey wrote:
The whole reason for PC back story is to include it in future plotlines.

OBJECTION!

While including a backstory in the future plot-lines is something useful and interesting, I'd hardly call that the reason for PC back story.

The reason for PC backstory is to give depth to the PC's. To elaborate on where they came from, and to establish a groundwork for who they are and where they are going.

Silver Crusade

kyrt-ryder wrote:
Blake Duffey wrote:
The whole reason for PC back story is to include it in future plotlines.

OBJECTION!

While including a backstory in the future plot-lines is something useful and interesting, I'd hardly call that the reason for PC back story.

The reason for PC backstory is to give depth to the PC's. To elaborate on where they came from, and to establish a groundwork for who they are and where they are going.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand that is why they are incorporated into the game in various forms.

Or do they just remain words on a sheet of notebook paper that only the player reads?


Heh, it's a rare day we agree shallowsoul. I never claimed they shouldn't be incorporated into the game, only that such wasn't their primary purpose.

(Sidenote: even if the DM didn't do much with a backstory there's still a lot a creative spirited player could, gradually revealing his identity to the group over time.)

EDIT: just a note to the people insinuating Shallowsoul is throwing an unbeatable hitsquad against the character, see this post. Now, how he defines as 'what they can handle' remains to be seen, but he's not sending intentional unbeatable executioners.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

1 person marked this as a favorite.

There's so much passive-aggressive crap in the last couple of pages that I can't even tell what to moderate out apart from the obvious personal insults and the replies that quote them.

This thread is a trainwreck; I'm locking it. Feel free to start over, but only if you treat each other like the intelligent human beings I know you all are.

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