Somewhat experienced DM with some questions


Rules Questions


This is my first post in the Pathfinder community. I have a couple of questions. Prehaps there are people in the Pathfinder community who can give some insight to me about campaign questions and general rules. I hope there is.

I have four players each starting out at first level. I have a half orc barbarian, a human bard, a dwarven cleric with a wood elf ranger.

I am thinking about running either Rise of the Runelords, Council of Thieves or doing my own story. The first two adventure paths seem really interesting to me. However, I am unsure of how to award treasure in Pathfinder. I understand there are tables that say how much wealth on average a player should accumulate. I guess my question is, how do some of the DM/GM's on Pathfinder award wealth and treasure. I understand there are objects on enemies but what if I wanted to give out random wealth or treasure? Is there a formula that some of you use for that based on the average party level? Also how powerful should magical items be that are looted?

My next question is, with the barbarian and the rage special ability, it says "While in rage, a barbarian gains a +4 morale bonus to her strength and constitution, as well as a +2 morale bonus on will saves. In addition, she takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase to Constitution grants the barbarian 2 hit points per Hit Dice, but these disappear when the rage ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points."

Is the +4 morale bonus to strength and constitution apply to the strength and constitution mods? Or does it apply to the entire ability score? Also how many things would I need to factor that into to make sure every aspect of the barbarian is "enhanced" when in rage mode? Also if the barbarian gets to say third level, would the barbarian get 6 hit points since the barbarian would have 3 hit dice? Also what does it mean when it says "are not lost first like temporary hit points."? Do they fall off in a certain order?

Finally, with npcs from the adventure paths, if they are fighting but they do not have any stats listed, do you automatically stats for them? Or do you have have to make a sheet for each npc? I have npcs for instance that say "CG female elf ranger 2/fighter 1". There is no information on what kind of weapons or armor they have. But I ask myself "What if the pcs sidetrack from a linear adventure path? How can I give the illusion of having a non linear game if I don't know specifics about my npc?" Would I have to make a sheet for an npc that female elf ranger 2/fighter 1 or would I automatically make assumptions about the characters stats without making a sheet?

Thank you very much.

Shadow Lodge

I don't use APs but I'll do my best.

Jdmthe1st wrote:
I am thinking about running either Rise of the Runelords, Council of Thieves or doing my own story. The first two adventure paths seem really interesting to me. However, I am unsure of how to award treasure in Pathfinder. I understand there are tables that say how much wealth on average a player should accumulate. I guess my question is, how do some of the DM/GM's on Pathfinder award wealth and treasure. I understand there are objects on enemies but what if I wanted to give out random wealth or treasure? Is there a formula that some of you use for that based on the average party level? Also how powerful should magical items be that are looted?

It is my understanding that the APs have all the treasure that the PCs should have already in them. If you want you can swap out some items for others of roughly equal value according to your players' tastes. You can also add items, but this will increase your party's power and might not be a good idea for the APs which assume a certain power level in order to maintain appropriate challenge.

Jdmthe1st wrote:
Is the +4 morale bonus to strength and constitution apply to the strength and constitution mods? Or does it apply to the entire ability score?

Entire score. So a barbarian with strength 16 and Con 14 when not raging would have Strength 20 and Con 18 when raging, for modifiers of +5 and +4.

Jdmthe1st wrote:
Also how many things would I need to factor that into to make sure every aspect of the barbarian is "enhanced" when in rage mode?

Quoting from here (a bit further down):

"Temporary increases to your Strength score give you a bonus on Strength-based skill checks, melee attack rolls, and weapon damage rolls (if they rely on Strength). The bonus also applies to your Combat Maneuver Bonus (if you are Small or larger) and to your Combat Maneuver Defense.

Temporary increases to your Constitution score give you a bonus on your Fortitude saving throws. In addition, multiply your total Hit Dice by this bonus and add that amount to your current and total hit points. When the bonus ends, remove this total from your current and total hit points."

Jdmthe1st wrote:
Also if the barbarian gets to say third level, would the barbarian get 6 hit points since the barbarian would have 3 hit dice?

Yes

Jdmthe1st wrote:
Also what does it mean when it says "are not lost first like temporary hit points."? Do they fall off in a certain order?

When you get temp HP, the first HP you lose are your temp HP. So if you get 12 temp HP from a spell, and then take 14 points of damage, the first 12 wipe out all your temp HP and only 2 points go to your actual HP. This means that when the spell ends you do not lose any HP because the temp HP were already "lost" to soak up that damage earlier.

If you are a 6th level barbarian and get 12 extra HP from raging, and you then lose 12 HP when you stop raging. It does not matter how much damage you took while raging, you still lose those 12 HP. If losing that 12 HP when you stop raging means that you are now between 0 and -Con HP, you are unconscious and dying. If losing those 12 HP puts you below -Con, you are now dead. Note that barbarians automatically stop raging when dropped unconscious. This makes rage a little risky - Raging Vitality is recommended around levels 3-7 so that your allies will have time to heal you before dropping out of rage kills you.

Jdmthe1st wrote:
Finally, with npcs from the adventure paths, if they are fighting but they do not have any stats listed, do you automatically stats for them? Or do you have have to make a sheet for each npc? I have npcs for instance that say "CG female elf ranger 2/fighter 1". There is no information on what kind of weapons or armor they have. But I ask myself "What if the pcs sidetrack from a linear adventure path? How can I give the illusion of having a non linear game if I don't know specifics about my npc?" Would I have to make a sheet for an npc that female elf ranger 2/fighter 1 or would I automatically make assumptions about the characters stats without making a sheet?

You could make a sheet or you could eyeball it if you have a good idea of roughly what the stats of a character of that level and type will look like. As a new GM I recommend making a quick sheet if there aren't too many such NPCs. You can probably leave out the fine details because the PCs won't know the exact stats, but jotting down ability scores, attacks, saves, HP, AC, and maybe a key skill or two should be sufficient for almost all purposes.


I don't use magic items, so I'll let someone else answer those questions.

Jdmthe1st wrote:
Is the +4 morale bonus to strength and constitution apply to the strength and constitution mods? Or does it apply to the entire ability score?

The whole score.

Jdmthe1st wrote:
Also how many things would I need to factor that into to make sure every aspect of the barbarian is "enhanced" when in rage mode? Also if the barbarian gets to say third level, would the barbarian get 6 hit points since the barbarian would have 3 hit dice? Also what does it mean when it says "are not lost first like temporary hit points."? Do they fall off in a certain order?

There are too many things to list individually, but stuff like str-based skills, melee attacks, damage, fort saves, and HP are the major ones. Gaining 4 Con gives you 2 HP per level, so at 3rd, yes, he'd get 6.

That phrase means that when the Con goes away, the HP it gave goes away, too. For example, at 3rd level, let's say the Barbarian has 30 HP normally. When he rages, he gains 6 HP, bringing him up to 36. If he takes 20 damage, when the Barbarian stops raging, he'd have 10 HP. If he took 31 damage, he'd be unconscious at -1 when the Rage ends.

Jdmthe1st wrote:
Finally, with npcs from the adventure paths, if they are fighting but they do not have any stats listed, do you automatically stats for them? Or do you have have to make a sheet for each npc? I have npcs for instance that say "CG female elf ranger 2/fighter 1". There is no information on what kind of weapons or armor they have. But I ask myself "What if the pcs sidetrack from a linear adventure path? How can I give the illusion of having a non linear game if I don't know specifics about my npc?" Would I have to make a sheet for an npc that female elf ranger 2/fighter 1 or would I automatically make assumptions about the characters stats without making a sheet?

I'm pretty sure that the adventure paths give full stats for all the NPCs they mention with class levels. You might just have to look in the back or something.


Wow! Thank you for the response. It was very quick.

Most of the responses were clear enough for me to understand. I apologize if I am riddling you with questions. You said this:

"Temporary increases to your Constitution score give you a bonus on your Fortitude saving throws. In addition, multiply your total Hit Dice by this bonus and add that amount to your current and total hit points. When the bonus ends, remove this total from your current and total hit points."

Could you clarify what you mean by: "multiply your total Hit Dice by this bonus and add that amount to your current and total hit points".

One other question for you. How much preparation would I need to do if I ran a non adventure path campaign? I understand it is probably going to take a toll on me compared to running an adventure path. However, I am not sure what I want to do yet for my players. I have two weeks to prepare for this.

Thanks again.


I will look in the back Mplindustries. The response was originally for Weirdo, however I wish to thank you as well. Nice to see this community being helpful to me.

Shadow Lodge

Jdmthe1st wrote:

"Temporary increases to your Constitution score give you a bonus on your Fortitude saving throws. In addition, multiply your total Hit Dice by this bonus and add that amount to your current and total hit points. When the bonus ends, remove this total from your current and total hit points."

Could you clarify what you mean by: "multiply your total Hit Dice by this bonus and add that amount to your current and total hit points".

"This bonus" is the increase to your constitution modifier. This will be half the morale bonus to the barbarian's constitution score. Since a first level barbarian gets +4 to Con, "this bonus" is +2 (the same bonus that gets added to the character's Fortitude saves).

Total HD = Level for most PCs.

So a 3rd level barbarian calculates 3*2 = 6.

They then add this amount to their current and total HP. So if this barbarian has a max total HP of 36, but is wounded and now has 22 HP, they add +6 to both these numbers for 42 total HP and 28 current HP.

The increased total HP means that it is possible for the barbarian to be healed all the way to 42 HP when raging, even though normally he can only be healed to his normal max HP of 36.

When the rage ends, they lose 6HP both current and total as described above.

Jdmthe1st wrote:
One other question for you. How much preparation would I need to do if I ran a non adventure path campaign? I understand it is probably going to take a toll on me compared to running an adventure path. However, I am not sure what I want to do yet for my players. I have two weeks to prepare for this.

Probably quite a bit, even ignoring worldbuilding. I ran a session last weekend that I spent at least 5 hours preparing for, probably closer to 10-15 hours - it's hard to say exactly because I spend a lot of time brainstorming while doing chores, waiting for the bus, etc and then write things down and compile stats in the evening/weekend. It can be very rewarding running your own adventures but it is generally very time consuming.


Ok I definately understand that now. Thanks.

Yeah I would think its a bunch of brainstorming and things of that nature. I may try it. 2 weeks might be all I need.

Liberty's Edge

Jdmthe1st wrote:
Finally, with npcs from the adventure paths, if they are fighting but they do not have any stats listed, do you automatically stats for them? Or do you have have to make a sheet for each npc? I have npcs for instance that say "CG female elf ranger 2/fighter 1". There is no information on what kind of weapons or armor they have. But I ask myself "What if the pcs sidetrack from a linear adventure path? How can I give the illusion of having a non linear game if I don't know specifics about my npc?" Would I have to make a sheet for an npc that female elf ranger 2/fighter 1 or would I automatically make assumptions about the characters stats without making a sheet?

Generally in the adventure paths you have the stats for the NPC are listed the first time they appear in the adventure and then there is a reference to the page where their characteristics were listed if they appear again.

Something like:

PRD wrote:


Caravan Guard CR 1
XP 400
Human fighter 2
N Medium humanoid
Init +5; Senses Perception +4
Defense
AC 19, touch 11, flat-footed 18 (+7 armor, +1 Dex, +1 shield)
hp 16 (2d10+5)
Fort +5, Ref +1, Will +1; +1 vs. fear
Defensive Abilities bravery +1
Offense
Speed 20 ft.
Melee lance +5 (1d8+3/×3) or longsword +5 (1d8+3/19–20) or kukri +5 (1d4+3/18–20)
Ranged heavy crossbow +3 (1d10/19–20)
Statistics
Str 17, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +2; CMB +5; CMD 16
Feats Alertness, Animal Affinity, Improved Initiative, Rapid Reload
Skills Handle Animal +5, Intimidate +3, Perception +4, Profession (drover) +5, Ride +1, Sense Motive +3, Survival +5
Languages Common
Gear banded mail, buckler, heavy crossbow with 10 bolts, kukri, lance, longsword, light horse (combat trained) with saddle, 1 gp

and then:

4 caravan guards (see page XX).

The Caravan guards statc were taken from the Game mastery guide from Paizo[url=http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/]PRD[url].

The PRD list the content of most hardbound rulebooks produced by Paizo and it is a great source of material but I strongly advise you to limit yourself to the Core Rulebook material for the players until you are familiar with the added content.

As a master the Game Mastery Guide, the NPC codex and the 3 bestiaries will be useful, especially the GMG and NPC codex as they contain a good number of pre-made NPC.

Returning to your question about NPC in the APs, sometime you will find some character without stats.
There are a few explanations for that:
1) it is a stock NPC from the GMG and his stats weren't printed to save space;
2) he is someone that the PC shouldn't absolutely fight, and that generally is spelled out somewhere;
3) he is of so little import that his actuals tat aren't listed;
4) he is someone that can be a long time contact of the PC and so will work better if the GM customize him for his group.

You need to stat up him only in the latter situation.
Notice that in a city during a peaceful situation even a high level fighter will not go around doing his shopping with full combat equipement.


mplindustries wrote:
I don't use magic items, so I'll let someone else answer those questions.

Interesting, I guess you add extra inherent bonuses when somebody levels up. Would you mind explaining how you do this, perhaps in another thread?


FangDragon wrote:
mplindustries wrote:
I don't use magic items, so I'll let someone else answer those questions.
Interesting, I guess you add extra inherent bonuses when somebody levels up. Would you mind explaining how you do this, perhaps in another thread?

Nope, I just don't use monsters from the Bestiary--I make my own npcs.

Grand Lodge

mplindustries wrote:
FangDragon wrote:
mplindustries wrote:
I don't use magic items, so I'll let someone else answer those questions.
Interesting, I guess you add extra inherent bonuses when somebody levels up. Would you mind explaining how you do this, perhaps in another thread?
Nope, I just don't use monsters from the Bestiary--I make my own npcs.

You custom craft every monster/NPC, and your games contain no magic items?

How does that even work?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
mplindustries wrote:
FangDragon wrote:
mplindustries wrote:
I don't use magic items, so I'll let someone else answer those questions.
Interesting, I guess you add extra inherent bonuses when somebody levels up. Would you mind explaining how you do this, perhaps in another thread?
Nope, I just don't use monsters from the Bestiary--I make my own npcs.

You custom craft every monster/NPC, and your games contain no magic items?

How does that even work?

I've done it for two decades--takes me not time at all. I'm happy to answer questions about, but I honestly don't know how to respond to just general confusion.


Unearthed Arcana had something similar, with rules called It's Not Your Gear, It's You.

Characters' wealth was drastically reduced, and your characters got feats one level earlier than normal (every two levels instead of three) and ability score increases one level earlier than normal (every three levels instead of four). There may have been more I'm forgetting, like +1/5th level to AC, but I can't remember too accurately at the moment.

Pretty sure it still used magic items, though, it was just for GMs that didn't want 50% of the character to come from equipment.

Grand Lodge

I'm currently running RotRL and it is great. My players are loving it. As for magic items, many of the being with class levels have treasure on them as well as the PCs finding them throughout the game. That being said though they have ample opportunity to craft and buy magic items in town. Sandpoint, where much of the campaign takes place, has a standard city stat block and a number of minor, moderate, and major magic items available per month. You just roll and see how many it has. Now, what those items are is up to you. You can roll randomly or decide or let the PCs decide what's available until all the slots are used up.


By the way ... so far, Council of Thieves is chock-full of treasure. Keep an eye on your party's wealth if you run it.

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