Is Witch Eternal Slumber classed as "mind-affecting"?

[NotADMalt]

During conversation the topic of using the Witch grand hex Eternal Slumber against a Tarrasque as a hypothetical method of a more permanent defeat outside of the typical beat it unconscious and wish/miracle. Since the Tarrasque is immune to mind affecting spells and I made the assumption that Eternal Slumber is acts as mind-affecting so therefore it would be immune but he stated that it does not have any reference to being mind affecting.

This seems like dirty rule lawyering but he does have a point, it does not state that it is mind-affecting. Perhaps is its own special class of silliness but this seems unlikely because Apple of Eternal Sleep exists which acts just like the witch eternal slumber hex and is of the enchantment school and so mind-affecting.

On the other hand a mind-affecting spell that you only get at level 18 is pretty much useless because everything and their pet monkey is immune to sleep at that level.

[Barry Armstrong]

Cackle also does not specify that it is a "sonic" effect, yet it kind of is. Witch Hexes are fairly poorly written overall...

[Rynjin]

Well, it allows a Will save so I'd say so.

Well actually no. The rest of the Hexes that are mind-affecting specifically say so.

I think no.

[StreamOfTheSky]

It does not say, so RAW it is not mind-affecting. Not sure if it's intentional or not, this is a level 18+ melee touch range version of a hex she's had since level 1, some sort of buff is certainly in order. Could be a curse effect just as easily as mind-affecting. Still won't work on anything immune to (magical) sleep effects, regardless.

Barry Armstrong wrote:

Cackle also does not specify that it is a "sonic" effect, yet it kind of is.

No, it kind of isn't.

[NotADMalt]

If it is not stated as a sleep effect why would it not work against something that is immune to sleep?

[StreamOfTheSky]

Because while it's not 100% certain if all sleep effects must be mind-affecting and/or enchantments (in fact, I'm quite sure there are poisons that cause sleep...) it's fairly self-explanatory that a sleep effect is a sleep effect.

[Jeraa]

Yumad73 wrote:

If it is not stated as a sleep effect why would it not work against something that is immune to sleep?

There is no [Sleep] descriptor, not do sleep effects specifically state "This is a sleep effect." The DM must use some common sense.

Eternal Slumber is a supernatural (Su) effect, so it is magical. It causes things to go to sleep. Therefore, it is a magical sleep effect.

Mind-affecting effects are always specifically called out as mind-affecting. They either have the [Mind-Affecting] descriptor, or say something like "This is a mind-affecting effect." Eternal Slumber doesn't have either of those, so it is not a mind-affecting effect.

The witch's Slumber hex, on the other hand, specifically states it works as the sleep spell. Sleep is a mind-affecting effect, so the Slumber hex should be too.

[Benrislove]

Jeraa wrote:

Yumad73 wrote:

If it is not stated as a sleep effect why would it not work against something that is immune to sleep?

There is no [Sleep] descriptor, not do sleep effects specifically state "This is a sleep effect." The DM must use some common sense.

Eternal Slumber is a supernatural (Su) effect, so it is magical. It causes things to go to sleep. Therefore, it is a magical sleep effect.

Mind-affecting effects are always specifically called out as mind-affecting. They either have the [Mind-Affecting] descriptor, or say something like "This is a mind-affecting effect." Eternal Slumber doesn't have either of those, so it is not a mind-affecting effect.

The witch's Slumber hex, on the other hand, specifically states it works as the sleep spell. Sleep is a mind-affecting effect, so the Slumber hex should be too.

This is my interpretation as well. +1