"Step 2" contradiction

[Bloodcrow]

Step 2: Race and Class(Pg.7)

This clearly states core rule book races along with aasimar, tengu, and tiefling are acceptable races for play. Just a few lines below it also states race options form a list of sources are generally available with few or no alterations.

This is not true as PFS is highly restrictive with additional races. Not sure if the was typographical error or an oversight.

I ask you please bring these restrictions to the foreground for current and new players. A clear list for races compatible with current PFS gaming. A list of restricted races and reasons for the restrictions along with information as how to obtain approval for restricted races. Races in current review as well as ones banned from game would be nice as well.

Reading thought he forums it is hard to tell rules fact from rules rumor. Clear information is best for all players.

I may not agree with these rules but I have the option to not participate. It is in contradiction of a free play environment and a hindrance to growing a player base. Driving an hour and a half and being denied play due to some obscure rulings would negative for everyone.

Though wandering around on my own I did stumble on the Additional Resources page but that was pure luck. There was no clear direction to seek out this page. Even the people who ran the last CON I went to had no knowledge of it.

[Dan Luckett]

I generally don't like to argue or tell someone they're wrong, but I'm honestly a little taken back that neither you nor the people running a PFS con were aware of the large, bold print on the second page of actual content in the Organized Play Guide. It's right after the section on playable materials on Page 5.

[Paz]

'Additional Resources' is explained in chapter 1 of the Guide; I'm very surprised that some con PFS organisers are ignorant of the concept. That document is pretty clear on what is needed to gain access to other races.

Are your issues theoretical, or based on a real life experience? It's hard to tell from your post.

[Dan Luckett]

Further thought: Free play means you don't have to pay anything to play. There is no more cost to play PFS than any home game you'd like to play in. All costs are either the same you'd have to play in a home game or mandated by the location.

Free in this context does not mean you get to do willy nilly because that would be the exact opposite of organized.

[Dan Luckett]

Another Thought:
All of those books listed have available race options; for example see the Advanced Players Guide. From memory, unless it's craft based I don't remember a race option not being available.

I think you're getting race options confused with Races.

Race: Elf
Race Option: Forlorn
= Forlorn Elf

[Jeffrey Fox]

It doesn't take luck to find the additional resources page. The web address is located on page 5 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play. It is under the heading "Additional Resources".

It is also linked in step 5 of character creation in the same guide under feats.

And then again in step 10 of character creation under equipment.

So I don't think it counts a pure luck when it is listed three times in the first 10 pages of the guide and twice in character creation section that every player that creates their own character should read.

I apologize if I come off a little abrasive, but as someone who co-ordinates a stores gamedays, players not reading the guide is a bit of a pet peeve.

[LDE47]

Ya I an see that and I also see nothing that points the Additional Resources as Core Rules and a Must Read for character creation. It enforces quite the opposite.

Quote:

a huge variety of options to help you customize your character.

Thus why I point out the lack of a direct bold link in the character creation rules.

And yes again Step 5 and Step 10 enforce my point as they directly point reference to Feats and Equipment for Feats and Equipment. I would typically not look for races and classes in chapters about feats and equipment nor would I typically look if resource references defined as being for feats and equipment.

Beyond that, you ether get the logic of association or you don't. I'll ask the next batch of players about this for some input.

[LDE47]

Quote:

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Race Guide

To create an dhampir, fetchling, goblin, ifrit, kitsune, nagaji, oread, sylph, undine, or wayang character, you must have a Chronicle sheet that opens the race as a legal option at character creation.
Note: Alternate racial traits, racial archetypes, racial evolutions, racial feats, and racial spells are only available for characters of the associated race. Racial equipment and magic items can be purchased and used by any race as long as the specific item permits it (for example, only halflings can purchase and use solidsmoke pipeweed).
The new alchemist discovery on page 44 is legal for play for characters of all races.

Dwarves: all alternate racial traits, except craftsman and xenophobic, are legal for play; racial subtypes are legal for play; all favored class options except wizard are legal for play; all archetypes are legal for play. The Forgemaster's 3rd level Craft Magic Arms and Armor bonus feat is replaced with the Heavy Armor Proficiency feat. The Forgemaster's 5th level master smith ability is replaced with Skill Focus (Craft); all dwarven equipment, feats, magic items, and spells are legal for play.
Elves: all alternate racial traits, except darkvision; all racial subtypes except arctic and dusk elves, are legal for play; all racial subtypes, favored class options, racial archetypes, elven special materials, feats, magic items, and spells are legal for play.
Gnomes: all alternate racial traits, racial subtypes, and favored class options are legal for play; all racial archetypes except experimental gunsmith are legal for play; all gnome equipment, feats, and spells are legal for play; all gnome magic items except amazing tools of manufacture are legal for play; Ring of craft magic may be used for Day Job checks.
Half-Elves: all alernate racial traits except drow-blooded and drow magic are legal for play; all racial subtypes except drow-descended are legal for play; all favored class options are legal for play; all racial archetypes except wild caller are legal for play. For the bonded witch archetype, energy siege shot is replaced with resounding shot (Advanced Player's Guide 238) at 10th level and arcane cannon is replaced with fire brand (Advanced Player's Guide 222) at 14th level under the bonded item weapon entry; all half-elven equipment, magic items, and spells are legal for play; all half-elven feats except Half-Drow Paragon are legal for play.
Half-Orcs: all alternate racial traits, racial subtypes, and favored class options are legal for play; all racial archetypes except blood god disciple and hateful rager are legal for play; all half-orc equipment is legal for play; all half-orc feats except Tenacious Survivor is legal for play; all half-orc magic items are legal for play; all half-orc spells except half-blood extraction are legal for play
Halflings: all alternate racial traits except Practicality are legal for play; all racial subtypes, favored class options, racial archetypes, orders, equipment, feats, and magic items are legal for play.
Humans: all alternate racial traits except heart of the fields and heroic are legal for play; all racial subtypes, except trailblazer, are legal for play; all favored class options, feats, equipment, and spells are legal for play; all racial archetypes and bloodlines except buccaneer and feral child are legal for play.

In Chapter 2, nothing from the catfolk, drow, hobgoblins, kobolds, orcs, and ratfolk entries are currently legal for play.

Aasimars: all alternate racial traits, favored class options, racial archetypes, racial equipment, feats, magic items, and spells are legal for play.
Dhampirs: all alternate racial traits, favored class options, racial archetypes, racial equipment, magic items, and spells are legal for play; all dhampir feats except Blood Drinker, Blood Feaster, Blood Salvage, and Diverse Palate are legal for play.
Fetchling: all alternate racial traits, favored class options, archetypes except shadow caller, evolutions, equipment, feats, magic items, and spells are legal for play.
Goblins: all alternate racial traits, goblin discoveries, favored class options, archetypes, equipment, feats, magic items, and spells except vomit twin are legal for play.
Ifrits: all alternate racial traits, favored class options, racial archetypes, racial equipment, feats, magic items, and spells are legal for play.
Oreads: all alternate racial traits, favored class options, racial archetypes, racial equipment, feats, magic items, and spells are legal for play.
Sylphs: all alternate racial traits, favored class options, racial archetypes, racial equipment, feats, magic items, and spells are legal for play.
Tengus: all alternate racial traits, favored class options, racial archetypes, racial equipment, feats, magic items, and spells are legal for play.
Tieflings: all alternate racial traits, favored class options, racial equipment, feats, magic items, and spells are legal for play; all racial archetypes except Fiendish Vessel are legal for play.
Undines: all alternate racial traits, favored class options, racial archetypes, racial equipment, feats, magic items, and spells are legal for play.

In Chapter 3, nothing from the changelings, duergar, gillmen, gripplis, merfolk, samsarans, strix, sulis, svirfneblin, vanaras, and vishkanyas entries are currently legal for play.
The rogue talents on page 193 are legal for play for characters of all races.

Kitsune: all alternate racial traits, favored class options, racial archetypes, racial feats, and magic items are legal for play.
Nagaji: all alternate racial traits, favored class options, racial archetypes, racial feats, and magic items are legal for play.
Wayangs: all alternate racial traits, favored class options, racial archetypes, racial equipment, feats, magic items, and spell are legal for play.

[Dan Luckett]

The Guide to Organized play is a must read...I don't know how you expect to play Pathfinder Society Organized Play without reading the book that tells you the rules. You can't just skip around and not read sections of it. You have to read all areas relevant to you. Which for a GM is everything, for a player everything leading up to the GM section.

[Jeffrey Fox]

LDE47 wrote:

Ya I an see that and I also see nothing that points the Additional Resources as Core Rules and a Must Read for character creation. It enforces quite the opposite.

That's because they're not core rules. A player doesn't have to read the additional resources if all they use is the Core Assumptions. Additional Resources are completely option, so yes they are the opposite of core in that regard. The guide is actually rather clear with the amount of space they have to explain.

[LDE47]

If they are optional then they will be treated as such.

[Caderyn]

It works very easily if you build a pure Core rulebook character you wont need to refer to the additional resources at all, if you use other source books then you will have to refer to the additional resources to determine what is legal and what is not from the additional source books.

The races allowed are all the core rule book races, tengu, aasimar and tiefling, if you could play another race you would know it because you would have a boon chronicle in front of you that permits it.

All players should be familiar with the guide after their first few sessions, and the additional resources are mandatory if you step away from the core rulebook, it defines a list of what is and is not allowed from all the other books made for the pathfinder RPG system (for various reasons things are limited, some is available as boons or from completing specific adventures, some does not fit the campaign world and is hence banned).

Race options are not races themselves, the refer to a specific subset of alterations you can make to races, where you trade out certain abilities normally granted by your race in exchange for certain other ones that might better fit your character concept.

For example half elves have many options

They can trade their free skill focus for a single weapon proficiency from the martial or exotic list.

Certain of these "Race options" are not allowed, for example all the options relating to half drow are unavailable for half elves as in Golarion drow do not exist and are thus unavailable to players.

Generally though "Race options" are fairly open with only a very few specific exceptions mentioned in the additional resources document mentioned earlier.

[Thamius]

LDE47 wrote:

If they are optional then they will be treated as such.

As a player, you are free to treat them as optional. No one is making you take any of the, for example, cool alternate race traits or racial traits in the Advanced Race Guide. We got along just fine using only the Core Rulebook back in Season 1, before all these options were printed.

However, a PFS GM cannot rule that, at his/her table, a legal choice from a source clearly documented in the Additional Resources section is not allowed at his/her table. If someone builds a perfectly legal sylph ninja who will fly by 9th level (this assumes he has the race chronicle, Ultimate Combat, and the ARG), you do not have the authority to overrule the Campaign Coordinator who has authorized all of those choices as Legal.

[Todd Morgan]

LDE47 wrote:

If they are optional then they will be treated as such.

What do you mean by this? Optional means you can either use the additional resources allowed or stick with core assumption. Optional doesn't mean you can disregard the additional resources page. Don't know if that is how you meant it or not...

[Michael Brock]

Bloodcrow wrote:

Step 2: Race and Class(Pg.7)

This clearly states core rule book races along with aasimar, tengu, and tiefling are acceptable races for play. Just a few lines below it also states race options form a list of sources are generally available with few or no alterations.

This is not true as PFS is highly restrictive with additional races. Not sure if the was typographical error or an oversight.

I ask you please bring these restrictions to the foreground for current and new players. A clear list for races compatible with current PFS gaming. A list of restricted races and reasons for the restrictions along with information as how to obtain approval for restricted races. Races in current review as well as ones banned from game would be nice as well.

Reading thought he forums it is hard to tell rules fact from rules rumor. Clear information is best for all players.

I may not agree with these rules but I have the option to not participate. It is in contradiction of a free play environment and a hindrance to growing a player base. Driving an hour and a half and being denied play due to some obscure rulings would negative for everyone.

Though wandering around on my own I did stumble on the Additional Resources page but that was pure luck. There was no clear direction to seek out this page. Even the people who ran the last CON I went to had no knowledge of it.

There is nothing unclear about the character creation rules and the Additional Reaources are clearly marked in 2 locations n the PFS landing page.

Looking at your reported play history, I know for a fact that there were 2-3 VCs and at least 2 VLs at that convention. So, your statement that people who ran the last con had no knowledge of it is untrue. Perhaps you didnt seek them out.

If you don't agree with the rules, as you advised, you don't have to participate. If you feel it is a contradiction of a free play environment, then there are other choices out there.

Switching from your alias (this name) to your primary user name (LDE47) just to be argumentative about your point because you didn't get the answer you wanted is also not going to happen. This post a locked.