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Can stand still really work?


Advice

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

The stand still feat looks great, except that it is a bare CMB check, so no weapon or feat bonuses really. Most monsters after about level 10 have such a high CMB the thought of actually succeeding with a bare CMB check seems impossible almost. I mean, a pally with adept champion using it ON his smite target, would probably work but other than that, anyone have any ideas? I'm thinking about taking it for a tank build, but the lack of bonuses to the CMB check is scaring me away.

Shadow Lodge

I've only seen it used on the party by an NPC adversary several levels above the party. It was effective in that context. I would be interested to see if others found it useful in other settings.

Do remember that generic attack bonuses such as Heroism will also increase your CMB (though the lack of weapon bonus or feat bonuses is still annoying).

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

yes i remember. the only thing that I can figure will work is a lore warden, they get a generic bonus to CMB and CMD. but let's say you are level 13, you are a fighter with that, and a 22 str with an item.
that's +19 CMB. with heroism, that's +21. Glabrazau (sp?) is a CR 13 demon, with a 34 CMD. -_- so you cannot realistically use it on a monster of equivalent CR from what I can see. so with heroism, you have a bit better than a 25% chance, without herism, it's much closer to 25%. and with an AC of 28, you're better off just hittin the darn thing.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Even if it doesn't work so well post level 10, it's still working q quite well for something like 80% of games.


There's plenty of ways to boost your CMB and lower their CMD.

And a good tank (who I am assuming is the one using this feat in your scenario) will have those methods at their disposal.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

care to list some of those methods for the benefit of all?


Stand Still is a bad feat.

If you want stand still's former glory (the version D&D 3E had) you have to wait till fighter 11 for "Pin Down" to use a reach weapon with and actually have large success chance.

If you just want to stay on a guy with a non-reach weapon, pick up Step Up instead. Aside from very specific corner cases, moving up 5 ft yourself is effectively just as good as keeping the other guy from stepping 5 ft back. You're mostly wanting the feat to mess up mages, archers, and reach weapon users, right?

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

wanting it to actually keep stuff from getting to the support characters.


Have you considered, instead of attempting a lockdown build that PF really doesn't support at all till higher levels... making a high offense character that enemies cannot ignore due to the threat he poses?

If you insist on lockdown, could you go caster and use battlefield control spells and summon meat shields? If you insist on melee lockdown, can you get your DM to approve the original Stand Still feat?

If still no... are you at least open to playing a Synthesist Summoner? Or normal summoner, but the eidolon is basically your character, either way. With the eidolon, you have access to a creature who can attain larger sizes via evolutions (and the enlarge person spell on your list; or via evo surge spells if you don't want it permanently large/huge), can extend its reach (evolution), and can attach grab, pull, and/or trip to its attacks (again, evolutions).
That may be your best route for what you're looking to accomplish.


Wow, that original Stand Still feat is way more effective, and would scale better with the ridiculous CMD progression.

As a DM, I might increase the prerequisite for Pathfinder, but the actual mechanics of it are much more in-tune with the "theme".


It ignores the stupid CMD system entirely in favor of a super high save DC, that is why it's awesome!

And it also works with reach weapons!

Seriously, compare it to "Pin Down." PF basically copied 3E Stand Still but decided to make it a fighter-only high level feat. It's actually one of THE pinnacle examples I use when explaining to people just how badly pathfinder nerfed martial characters and took away awesome things they could do in 3E (or do at MUCH lower levels).


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Don't you add any miscellaneous combat bonuses and weapon bonuses to your combat maneuvers when using your weapon?

If I attempt to stop someone's movement with my polearm by butting them in the gut, and I happen to be a weapon master fighter in polearms who has been buffed by his bard, cleric, and wizard allies, you can bet your butt that the target is going to be stopped.


Ravingdork wrote:

Don't you add any miscellaneous combat bonuses and weapon bonuses to your combat maneuvers when using your weapon?

If I attempt to stop someone's movement with my polearm by butting them in the gut, and I happen to be a weapon master fighter in polearms who has been buffed by his bard, cleric, and wizard allies, you can bet your butt that the target is going to be stopped.

Indeed. Clever tactics will do it every time. But if you also have abilities that take advantage of stopping people from attacking anyone else but you, in true "taunt tank" fashion, then all the better.

Things like the Step Up chain, Pin Down, Stand Still (as it should be), and Teleport Tactician (although it has ridiculous feat taxes) make you an outstanding battlefield controller.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

so yeah, the answer is no, not really. I'm playing a hellknight, and i'm protecting a signifier. kinda like a bodyguard, so i'll just be a 'tank' by doing a lot of damage and aiding the caster a lot

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