Goblinworks Executive Founder
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With the announcement of the new daily deal I wanted to start this seperate thread for discussion.
How is gear cosmetics going to be handled? Basically, you noted that the daily deal gear is "going to have very minimal (if any) in game mechanical effects". If that is the case are we going to have options for gear slots to make cosmetic changes to them that don't directly effect encumbrance, threads, etc?
For example in other games (if I remember correctly Rift had this) you had your gear that you wore with the stats you wanted but then on top of this you had another field for each gear slot that you could put a cosmetic item that had no game effect but changed the way your gear looked. I could see this being a PERFECT use for these daily deals if they truly have minimal or no in game effects. Especially since I wouldn't want it to be a necessity to thread a cosmetic item over a real piece of gear in fear of it getting looted in the event I was killed.
Goblin Squad Member
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How is gear cosmetics going to be handled? Basically, you noted that the daily deal gear is "going to have very minimal (if any) in game mechanical effects". If that is the case are we going to have options for gear slots to make cosmetic changes to them that don't directly effect encumbrance, threads, etc?
I would agree to cosmetic slots that are not loot-able if the stats we basic or common. Otherwise people would put powerful gear into the cosmetic slots to exploit it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you put powerful gear into a cosmetic slot, you should not get any bonuses from it, so putting powerful gear in that slot means you aren't using the powerful gear, which makes it redundant.
Mid rather see a cosmetic skin slot on equipment so it's attached to the item itself, making rare cosmetic pieces as valuable as items. Plus then only the active equipment piece needs a thread.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I wouldn't mind a 'costume slot' but it should only add to the model of the item, never take anything away.
Still I would rather have the armor be custom created. If you want fancy armor, find your self I fancy-armor-maker. It add to the game economy, you can't just buy everything on the market, you will have to search people out for the really cool stuff.
You can always cover up armor, but If I'm using a heavy mace or flail, and I see someone not wearing heavy plate armor, I know I'm going to be able to do some serious damage if I hit them. And I would like to see someone try and cover up plate armor in a non-magical way.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I would love to see something like DCUO's model. Items have stats while equipped and can be crafted/ traded/ sold. But the skin or look of it was separated from the mechanics. This allowed players to look the way they wanted while still having the stats they needed. Now some modification might be needed; no plate skins if not proficiency ect. Items would still decay/ destroyed and crafters could create rare skins in addition to rare stats. It really is a win/ win.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Personally, I hope one of things that crafters will be able to do is customize the appearance the equipment they make. More advanced crafters can unlock more interesting equipment customizations.
A sufficiently advanced system could allow for craftsmen to develop their own signature style. It would be really cool to not only look at the equipment a player is wearing and not only have an idea of the mundane stats of the equipment, but know who made it based on the style.
It's the kind of thing that would make the role of craftsmen quite attractive.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I would love to see something like DCUO's model. Items have stats while equipped and can be crafted/ traded/ sold. But the skin or look of it was separated from the mechanics. This allowed players to look the way they wanted while still having the stats they needed. Now some modification might be needed; no plate skins if not proficiency ect. Items would still decay/ destroyed and crafters could create rare skins in addition to rare stats. It really is a win/ win.
I'm not familiar with the game, but that is what I am thinking. Maybe even make it so that the skins are linked to certain item types as suggested above ala a plate skin only works on plate armor a sword skin only works on swords etc.
I also completely agree that this should be a main function of crafting, but for items that you can gain in other ways (IE Daily deals or any other special things they provide now or in the future) that should be an option if it the items doesn't have a game mechanic effect.
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Goblin Squad Member
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One thing that I would also like to see in regards to gear is being able to insrcibe things on items you craft. Asheron's Call had this and it was always neat to have a really nice shield that a buddy made for you inscribed with a unique message, even if it was something as simple as "for my good friend Black Leaf" or whatever.
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Goblin Squad Member
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One thing that I would also like to see in regards to gear is being able to insrcibe things on items you craft.
I agree.
However, I would ask that it please not be implemented the way LOTRO does it, where the Inscription entry form is a popup that interrupts your normal crafting. Granted, we don't know what crafting is really going to be like in PFO, so this might not be a problem at all. However, my experience in LOTRO, and my general experience designing forms, makes me believe the proper way to do this is to create an entry field for the Inscription that the crafter can fill prior to clicking the Create button, if there is such a button.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Personally, I hope one of things that crafters will be able to do is customize the appearance the equipment they make. More advanced crafters can unlock more interesting equipment customizations.
A sufficiently advanced system could allow for craftsmen to develop their own signature style. It would be really cool to not only look at the equipment a player is wearing and not only have an idea of the mundane stats of the equipment, but know who made it based on the style.
It's the kind of thing that would make the role of craftsmen quite attractive.
This would be really fantastic, along with inscribing or naming, if they can be put into the game reasonably.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've only got one bit to add to the cosmetic discussion:
I played Everquest 2 for a very long time [since launch, and until it went free-to-play]. They had an appearance gear functionality, and it worked pretty well, except for one thing; I played a druid, and I had to keep my helmet graphic turned off because all of the leather helmets looked, well, stupid. All of them except the really hard-to-get epic gear, and even some of them looked like one of those early-years football helmets.
Sure, my character has fantastic hair, but it killed some of the immersion to run into battle with no head protection. For the sake of all that is good and righteous, please include helms that do not look like they were crafted from an old feedbag. I beg you. I will likely be playing a druid at launch, and I'd like for him to be able to cover his noggin with something other than a rugby helmet or an old bucket with eyeholes.
Actually, the old bucket might work for some character concepts . . .
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Goblin Squad Member
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Personally, I hope one of things that crafters will be able to do is customize the appearance the equipment they make. More advanced crafters can unlock more interesting equipment customizations.
this >> 'cosmetic gear'
But please also give us customizable tabards, hoods, capes and shields. Let clerics wear plate mail underneath their robes, and let soldiers paint their shields with the color or sigil of their unit.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I was just about to start a thread on this. :(
Basically I think we should use a system very similar but slightly different than LotRO's system.
You can equip items to cosmetic slots. You don't actually need the item after that point, it is a part of that cosmetic outfit until you decide to remove or replace it. All you have to do is go in and click "Display" on that outfit and it replaces the appearance of your currently worn gear.
Here is the twist on LotRO's system I would propose. You can only display an item cosmetically if you have the same category of item equipped. Categories would be heavy, medium, light, and robes/clothing for armor. Tower, large, medium, and buckler for shields. And 1-handed swords, 2-handed mace, knives, polearms, staffs etc. for weapons.
So if your cosmetic outfit is shining steel armor, a heavy shining steel shield and a radiant bastard sword you will be able to display that all in heavy steel armor with a heavy steel shield, and a wicked bastard sword. You could not display it while wearing silk monk robes and a wielding a quarterstaff.
I would also make super high end/rare items non-cosmetically equippable. So you can't go around looking like you are decked out in ultra great gear while you are wearing rusty iron plate.
The point of this is:
1. I hate gaudy high end gear. Generally I find my favorite gear appearance wise somewhere between starter gear and halfway up the gear chain. I know I'm not alone in this.
2. More importantly I want to see uniforms. I know if the system works this way the Empyrean Order will instate uniforms for our military members based off their character role/gear weight and their rank. People are going to use whatever gear gives them the best stats so this is the only way you will see head to toe uniforms. I think this game will really be missing something if we don't see that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That's why I'd like to see a cosmetic slot on the actual items so that you reskins the actual item depending on what it is. Eg you can only put a longsword cosmetic on a longsword.
You could set up uniform things like tabards or surcoats as well as enamels on metal armor, dyes on cloth and add heraldry, insignias etc to them in the cosmetic slot.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That's why I'd like to see a cosmetic slot on the actual items so that you reskins the actual item depending on what it is. Eg you can only put a longsword cosmetic on a longsword.
You could set up uniform things like tabards or surcoats as well as enamels on metal armor, dyes on cloth and add heraldry, insignias etc to them in the cosmetic slot.
That's a pretty decent system actually... I like that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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1. I hate gaudy high end gear. (...)
2. More importantly I want to see uniforms. (...)
agree strongly with both your sentiments, but I prefer Jameow's (and others before him) idea of cosmetic options for the items themselves and not for the characters.
-if you have the perfect looking item, you should be willing to spend your threads protecting that.
-if you have a powerful but ugly looking item, you should be willing to pay for a master crafter to change it's looks.
-changing the looks of an item should be fairly simple and cheap at least for basic changes (tabard dye, shield paint) but with costlier high-end options (gem-studded).
-purely cosmetic items like tabards/surcoats/cloaks/etc with no mechanical benefit might even be free to bind, but should still take up a slot. If you find a magic cloak you have to choose between the pretty one and the magic one (until you can get the magic one embroidered and dyed).
my points are
-what you see is what they wield
-fashion industry: 'cosmetic' gear is treated like all other gear, and looking good requires some upkeep.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Strongly second the idea to be able to have customizable and visible heraldry - If I'm leading a Warband into conflict, I want my troops and brothers in arms to feel like a unit, not like a bunch of guys who decided to get together and wreck things because, hey, Tuesday.
At least shields. The Keepers of The Circle's training unit (The Greenshields) don't need anything overly complicated, but goodness gracious do I want to paint their (and other units) shields. Uniforms go a long, long way to encouraging unit behavior and they make it much, much easier in formation warfare to understand what the heck is going on.
On the flip side, I can't say I wouldn't be giddy if I could be a master armor smith whose full plate is very distinctive - I'd want to be able (at least) to institute my proof or mark on the armor so you would know where it came from.
Strongly second the idea to be able to have customizable and visible heraldry - If I'm leading a Warband into conflict, I want my troops and brothers in arms to feel like a unit, not like a bunch of guys who decided to get together and wreck things because, hey, Tuesday.
At least shields. The Keepers of The Circle's training unit (The Greenshields) don't need anything overly complicated, but goodness gracious do I want to paint their (and other units) shields. Uniforms go a long, long way to encouraging unit behavior and they make it much, much easier in formation warfare to understand what the heck is going on.
On the flip side, I can't say I wouldn't be giddy if I could be a master armor smith whose full plate is very distinctive - I'd want to be able (at least) to institute my proof or mark on the armor so you would know where it came from.
In DAOC you could put your guild sigil on tabards, which could be worn over armor. On shields and on cloaks. It would be really cool to be able to do these things with crafted gear.
Now adding custom sigils was something they never did while I was there. A nice idea, but difficult to implement and a resource drain when your talking complex designs replicated on the models. Perhaps having a big selection of selectable designs, like DAOC did it would work best?