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Two characters with bardic performance not happy


Advice

Silver Crusade

For a homebrew game I'm running I've got a standard bard (casts buffs and enchantments, has lots of skills, uses bardic performance) and a cleric who's also an evangelist. The cleric seems disappointed that there is a bard in the group (he thought the other player was playing a ranger) and that the bard severely reduces the value of the cleric's ability to use bardic performance. I'm looking for a way to quell this dissatisfaction quickly and fairly. I have some ideas:

1) Allow the cleric to rebuild, so long as he remains a cleric. Not really preferred as I'd like him to continue with his evangelist idea.

2) Allow the two performances to stack to some extent. I'm thinking for inspire courage (the important one to him) the bonus to damage could stack while the bonus to attack wouldn't.

3) Change his inspire courage to give a bonus to something else. AC, DR, saves, speed, or whatever. Not sure what I'd do but it'd have to scale somehow like standard inspire courage does. He's an Ulfen warchanter (let him replace oratory with sing) so something that fits the theme of inspiring the war tribes of the north.

4) Leave it as it is. Other players have suggested that having 2 characters capable of using bardic performance would be a benefit, as they could take turns using performance and casting (only matters for early levels when it's still a standard action). It also provides a larger uses/day pool (also less important later). I worry that the other players were playing up the usefulness to make the cleric's player feel better.

The player is not the entitlement type, nor has he said anything explicitly expressing his feelings. He is a great player and I want to help him have an enjoyable game.


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I dont see why they cant take turns using the ability especially at low levels, at higher levels there are other things that consume uses of the bardic performance, so I think you'll never find yourself or the party with "too many" uses. Plus it frees up actions for one of the characters so they dont feel like they always have to do it that or the party misses out.


Well, then, discuss it with him and see what he wants to do about it.

Silver Crusade

Fair points. I'm mostly looking for some options/suggestions to bring to him so we have a base to discuss from. Does option 2 sound reasonable? Any suggestions for option 3?


There are a number of Bardic Archetypes that change Inspire Courage without changing much else. The Court Bard, for example, reverses the buffs into debuffs for the enemy. The bard could probably rebuild to reduce redundancy without losing the normal bard stuff he's been doing (spells and whatnot) far more easily.


Or let the bard rebuild to an arcane duelist.

Mass Blade Thirst + Inspire Courage, hmm delicious.

Silver Crusade

The bard is a fairly new player and doesn't want to deal with anything beyond the core rulebook. Otherwise, yes, it'd be easy to have her switch to an archetype that replaced some (or all) of the performances, especially as we've only done one session so far. As it stands, I'm looking at suggesting that the cleric change his inspire courage to one of the following:

Warchant: As the Satire ability from the Court Bard, but reskinned.
Spirit Song: As the Dweomercraft ability from Magician, but also reskinned.


Yeah, I don't see any issue with essentially letting the Cleric take a Bardic Archetype for his music feature.


I've been there in a 3.5 game with a bard and a knight. The class bonuses didn't stack. So I'd say tell 'em to suck it. Didn't they discuss characters before the first session?

Silver Crusade

They did, but there was miscommunication as two different games involving many of the same people were starting around the same time. The player with the bard is playing a ranger in the other game, and the player with the cleric got confused on which character was in which game.


If you're cool with, let one player rebuild.


Given the bard doesnt want to deal with shifting rules and the cleric presumably is, a change to the clerics abilities. I dont recommend allowing them to stack, as there is a reason the game doesnt allow like bonuses to stack, it can really throw off the numbers after the while.

As to what to change the clerics performance to, i have a VERY good fit for you. Take a look at the super genius guide to Divine Archetypes (3rd party product) and the chantry archetype. Give the player that instead of the standard performance they get from the archetype.


The cleric can be just as good "evangelising" his religion as a baseline cleric. Wouldn<t chnage much RP wise.

What are his dieties'(if any) domains and subdomains? What's the theme? What's the rest of the party (so as not to step on other toes?

Silver Crusade

darkwarriorkarg wrote:

The cleric can be just as good "evangelizing" his religion as a baseline cleric. Wouldn't change much RP wise.

What are his deity's(if any) domains and subdomains? What's the theme? What's the rest of the party (so as not to step on other toes?

Erastil, can't remember his domain. He left his Ulfen tribe to spread the worship of Erastil and hopes to some day return to them. The campaign is nautical in nature, but more in a "adventures with a boat on a watery map" than "piracy and ship-to-ship combat" although the latter does happen occasionally. The party:

Experienced Players:
fighter (two-handed, falchion and heavy armor)
magus (scimitar and shocking grasp)
sorcerer (not sure what he's doing yet, but he's a gillman)
cavalier (with a crocodile mount)
cleric (evangelist, Erastil)

Newer Players:
bard (face, knowledge, buffs, enchantment, some archery)
rogue (swashbuckler)

Yes it's a large group but the intent is to play even with some missing. Most likely to be missing the magus, cavalier, rogue, or maybe the fighter.


Well, if they don't want to share the ability to use one of the best buffs in the game, you could let the Cleric take some Bardic Masterpieces as feats.


I think your best option here is to choose one of the bardic archetypes that replaces Inspire Courage and go with that. It removes stacking issues and allows them both to play the characters they signed up to play.

The Court Bard's Satire seems like a good fit, and the Detective's Careful Teamwork seems really appropriate for Erastil.


I'm going to 4th the idea of replacing the bard's Inspire Courage with Satire (from the Court Bard archetype.) Even if he doesn't want the rest of the archetype, offer him that swap.

Silver Crusade

The cleric swapped his inspire courage for satire (reskinned as Warchanting). He was very excited about it and thought it fit his character idea better than the standard inspire courage anyway.

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