|
I have a quandary that hopefully someone can help me out with. In the "Advanced Players Guide" there is a feat in which you can change the element of a spell or make it half and half, which I love. Also, the req. for this feat is that you cast arcane spells, and that it uses a 1 spell slot higher which is good. Also you need to take more than once to apply a different element, for example a time for fire, another for ice, etc.
Now for the question at hand. I found in my "Forgotten Realms Magic of Fauren" and there it states a similar ability. The only difference is that it requires at least a metamagic feat and 5 ranks in knowledge(arcana)and it you don't use 1 spell slot higher which is awesome. I would like to get your perspective on this. This is a home game in which my wife and I are the only characters. Once in a while I will play with two other friends, so max with at least three people in a party.
My question what is the technical difference between the two, and would the feat from Forgotten Realms be overpowering or the fact that I'm in such a small party make up the difference between the two feats? Any constructive feedback would be great. :)
|
|
At some point you are best off deciding on which game you want to play... 3.5 or Pathfinder. 3.5's power creep is like a drug you take a little bit, than you take more. Eventually you wind up back at the game where the noncasters wind up taking more of a spectator role as the levels rise.
Part of the correction of Pathfinder was that the feats weren't as godawesomely powerful.
Decide which game you want to play and have fun doing it. That is the only commandment.
That sounds cool. What about the spells from nwn like ghostly visage. I love that spell, because it is so much fun. But, you are right in that I have noticed that the feats from 3.5 are sometimes too powerful or just to damn tempting. :)
|
|
Keep in mind that 3.5 feats came one every 3 levels and pathfinder ones come every 2. Generally, a 3.5 feat is better than a corresponding pathfinder feat. In this case, the 3.x feat not increasing the level is a huge boon for having to wait to level 5 (was only level 2 in 3.5). Oh, and your caster has to learn another metamagic, darn. If that's a dealbreaker you probably shouldn't be looking at either feat.
Basically comparing both in their natural habitat (3.5 feat and skill systems), one you can get at level 1, the other you get at level 3 and dictates that you get a metamagic at level 1. Getting it at level one but having to increase the level by 1 isn't very useful unless you're using this on ray of frost, so the 3.5 one is almost completely superior here.
I don't think the 3.5 feat is overpowered, and in fact I think the Pathfinder version is underpowered.
|
|
Keep in mind that 3.5 feats came one every 3 levels and pathfinder ones come every 2. Generally, a 3.5 feat is better than a corresponding pathfinder feat. In this case, the 3.x feat not increasing the level is a huge boon for having to wait to level 5 (was only level 2 in 3.5). Oh, and your caster has to learn another metamagic, darn. If that's a dealbreaker you probably shouldn't be looking at either feat.
Basically comparing both in their natural habitat (3.5 feat and skill systems), one you can get at level 1, the other you get at level 3 and dictates that you get a metamagic at level 1. Getting it at level one but having to increase the level by 1 isn't very useful unless you're using this on ray of frost, so the 3.5 one is almost completely superior here.
I don't mind waiting till 5th level, plus I do plan to obtain ectoplasmict metamagic so that is not a concern. My concern is balance. If I am in a party of only three, then the power level might be balanced, but the mechanics and difficultly of the game play might be altered for the better or the worse. What do you intrepid adventurers think?
|
|
Add 3.5 feats to Pathfinder characters (who will also get more of them) and measure the meter again.Why? To show that the character is better? Of course it will be better, that's why you'd want to use the feat in the first place. But saying categorically '3.5 feats are better than Pathfinder feats' is silly. Many (most?) are exactly the same, some are changed to reduce bookkeeping, and some are better in PF. Many PF feats didn't even exist in 3.5 and drastically improve their respective builds (particularly for archers).
Most of 3.5 stuff is perfectly fine to use in PF, it just needs to be judged on a case by case basis. This is one case where a feat got nerfed that really didn't need to be. And even if you disagree, the feat is not going to break their game.
Thank you guys for helping me out on this. This has helped a lot, and it has brought up some new ideas I can do for my game. Thank you. :) Anyone else has other ideas that they have. I would really appreciate it. :)
|
|
To add my voice I drop the +1 level on Elemental Spell but add a minimum CL of 5. Hasn't proved at all overpowering and people actually take it now. Although pathfinder gives you more feats they are still a precious commodity and Elemental Spell as it's written doesn't cut the mustard.
That sounds like a great idea. Thank you. I love this forum and you guys are awesome for helping me out a lot.
Add 3.5 feats to Pathfinder characters (who will also get more of them) and measure the meter again.
Second this. I play in a game where one of the players has a fighter with 4 arms and the 3.5 Multiweapon Attacks chain and all the supporting Two Weapon Fighting feats. With 13 attacks per round plus assorted extra effects he can one round anything while the rest of us wait for him to work out the math for his damage.
|
|
Add 3.5 feats to Pathfinder characters (who will also get more of them) and measure the meter again.Second this. I play in a game where one of the players has a fighter with 4 arms and the 3.5 Multiweapon Attacks chain and all the supporting Two Weapon Fighting feats. With 13 attacks per round plus assorted extra effects he can one round anything while the rest of us wait for him to work out the math for his damage.
I will add the major difference between this pf feat and 3.5 feat is that in pf, you can make the spell half of the original energy and half of the new energy, while in the 3.5, it is only that one new energy. Should this affect the power of the feat dramatically or just a minimum change?
|
|
I will add the major difference between this pf feat and 3.5 feat is that in pf, you can make the spell half of the original energy and half of the new energy, while in the 3.5, it is only that one new energy. Should this affect the power of the feat dramatically or just a minimum change?Add 3.5 feats to Pathfinder characters (who will also get more of them) and measure the meter again.Second this. I play in a game where one of the players has a fighter with 4 arms and the 3.5 Multiweapon Attacks chain and all the supporting Two Weapon Fighting feats. With 13 attacks per round plus assorted extra effects he can one round anything while the rest of us wait for him to work out the math for his damage.
It's a big difference as changing something to half and half doesn't fix the problem you were avoiding: resistance. If your fireball would do 30 damage, but the enemy has resist 10, changing half to cold still means the damage is reduced by 10. Unless you are changing half to take advantage of some vulnerability, or to get half damage on an immune enemy, it probably won't matter. The full damage type switch is superior. As stated before, the 3.5 feat is better than the pf one in almost every way. That's not to say the 3.5 one is overpowered, just that it's better, meaning the pf one is probably underpowered.
|
|
It's a big difference as changing something to half and half doesn't fix the problem you were avoiding: resistance. If your fireball would do 30 damage, but the enemy has resist 10, changing half to cold still means the damage is reduced by 10. Unless you are changing half to take advantage of some vulnerability, or to get half damage on an immune enemy, it probably won't matter. The full damage type switch is superior. As stated before, the 3.5 feat is better than the pf one in almost every way. That's not to say the 3.5 one is overpowered, just that it's better, meaning the pf one is probably underpowered.Except that the PF version let's you chose to swap half or all the dice. In this sense it's better than the 3.5 version, but it's not worth the level bump. And I'm not sure there are even any critters in the game with dual vulnerabilities, so I don't know why you'd ever want to do the half/half method.
New question. Adding the metamagic mastery ability for a Universalist wizard, how would you handle that situation? Still use a "use" for a level 0 adjustment, or make it a free for all fun factor untap ability at lvl 8? I would love to hear your thoughts on this. :)
|
|
Except that the PF version let's you chose to swap half or all the dice. In this sense it's better than the 3.5 version, but it's not worth the level bump. And I'm not sure there are even any critters in the game with dual vulnerabilities, so I don't know why you'd ever want to do the half/half method.
New question. Adding the metamagic mastery ability for a Universalist wizard, how would you handle that situation? Still use a "use" for a level 0 adjustment, or make it a free for all fun factor untap ability at lvl 8? I would love to hear your thoughts on this. :)
Hello everyone. Can anyone help me with this conundrum. I would appreciate any type of assistance.
|
|
Except that the PF version let's you chose to swap half or all the dice. In this sense it's better than the 3.5 version, but it's not worth the level bump. And I'm not sure there are even any critters in the game with dual vulnerabilities, so I don't know why you'd ever want to do the half/half method.
New question. Adding the metamagic mastery ability for a Universalist wizard, how would you handle that situation? Still use a "use" for a level 0 adjustment, or make it a free for all fun factor untap ability at lvl 8? I would love to hear your thoughts on this. :)
Hello everyone. Can anyone help me with this conundrum. I would appreciate any type of assistance.Hi again. I know I sound desperate, but I would like some feedback and help with this quandary. Any advice would be nice.
Adding the metamagic mastery ability for a Universalist wizard, how would you handle that situation? Still use a "use" for a level 0 adjustment, or make it a free for all fun factor untap ability at lvl 8? I would love to hear your thoughts on this. :)
Yes, it would still take a daily use of the ability. There's nothing that says it wouldn't; it just costs more uses if the adjustment is more than 1 level.
|
|
Yes, it would still take a daily use of the ability. There's nothing that says it wouldn't; it just costs more uses if the adjustment is more than 1 level.Adding the metamagic mastery ability for a Universalist wizard, how would you handle that situation? Still use a "use" for a level 0 adjustment, or make it a free for all fun factor untap ability at lvl 8? I would love to hear your thoughts on this. :)
Thank you. You have helped me a lot. :)