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I'm about to run a new S&S game, but I am having trouble figuring out why there so many lightly guarded cargo ships going through the Shackles, and so many poorly defended settlements near their coasts.
Before this AP, it was my understanding that the Shackles Pirates did most of their work north of the Eye, and only used the Shackles as a safe haven where they could relax and spend their spoils.
However, from what I can tell most of the PC's piracy is expected to happen in the Shackles or south along the Sargava and Mwangi coasts. And apparently a lot of the ships going through these regions are really poorly defended.
I mean, just look at the Truewind (example prey in Raiders of the Fever Sea) crew for instance. No guards and 2 officers with just expert/aristocrat class levels. The other example ships really aren't much better. Neither are all the small villages that are apparently in abundance along the Sargava and Mwangi coastlines.
So my question is what kind of trade routes go through the Shackles region, and how/why do these ships travel through the Pirate Nation without any defenses?
Shh! Don't point to the holes.
You do need some level-appropriate encounters. The Eye is not the only storm in the sea. A weak encounter can be just the remnant of a larger convoy fallen victim to poor weather. Enter the players.
What put pirates in the Carribean were the actual colonies there with ports vital to ferrying goods over to the mother empires. The trade routes actually went to the Carribean.
Having a number of competing empires plopping the same area with competing colonies could not be a stabilizing factor. That's just a privateer breeding ground. The trade routes actually went to the Carribean.
The Shackles archipelago is odd in that it is actually Pirate Land. It does not sport the colonies of competing empires. For Raiders of the Fever Sea at any rate, the PCs are discouraged from attempting piracy in the Shackles per se as they would be considered fresh meat. Especially with the location of Tidewater Rock, I believe it is assumed that the PCs are "fishing" away from the archipelago. There would be still be trade routes skirting the Eye and Shackles going to/from Sargava and the rest of the Inner Sea.
This is not canon, by the way. I have not read the Isles of the Shackles. I would guess that even within the Shackles, there would be some form of trade economy generated between the various ports as the plunder-generated wares become subject to supply-and-demand. Just because pirates have "safe" havens in the Shackles, it does not mean everyone there is a pirate. There would surely arise merchants who don't have a calling to be blood-thirsty hunter gatherers to help get the goods from port A to the baron at port B, buy low, sell high sort of thing. Port Peril has a district of merchants. Several if I recall correctly. Only difference would be that instead of earning the ire of an empire when practicing piracy within the Shackles, one is earning the ire of another pirate.
There is a two-fold problem with the trade routes :
For one, where does all the trade come from ? Sargava looks a bit small, so do the coastal cities (Bloodcove and Segoth (?)).
So one might viably need some further trading empire down south the Garundian coast and possible form the Atzlan Isle, whoch provides both resources andproducts to carry north, and a market for products being carried south.
In our take, Sargava and Segoth are the northernmost ports on a long coastal tarde route up Garund, with the southern people being (rightly) afraid to sail further and thus avoid the pirates. Those southern lands on the other hand ar e strongly protected by regional-bound druids and cults, which extend their protection over the coast, but which will not venture north. Second, many merchants will sail west from the southern ports until they either know they are solidily to the west of the Shackles before turning north, or even apporaching the islands of old Atzlan ( more dangerous, but easier to navigate ) , losing more time in travel, but gaining greater safety from piracy.
So pirates prey north of the Eye, and down to Sargava (if they dare), You just need more trade routes
Take into account that the "golden age pirates" and predecessors plundered the carribean and the Northern Indian Ocean for the readily available gold. Gold usually from inland mines. So... one might want to add some of those (or silver or whatever ), like the half millions bits-of eight lost by the Spanish in the Bahammas duricng the early 18th century in a single storm !
Because honestly : Cheliax occupied Sargava for gaining access to what exactly (that was, pre-Thrune-"putsch" ) ? Right, something really valuable which they could easily gather right there.
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Second, you might want to populate the Shackle Islands themselves some more, and have greater merchantile trade within the islands (protected by the local pirates ) but not as much for traders willing to go to Port Peril, Hell's Harbour or Illizmagorti. Have planatations growing Tobacco, Nuts, Cobra, Breadfruit, Sugar and even Coffee, all of which growing nicely in the island climate, and you have some attractive produce to actually draw traders into the islands themselves, possibly under a protective coat of arms/ seal (which must be bought yearly ?) providing protection from (most) pirates, and gives directly convertible gold to the pirate overlords.
Anyway, given the extreme proximity of the Shackles, they would be hellish to sail in any storm, where you find yourself on a leeshore with an hour or so. nevermidn the narrow channels, reefs, nasty courses of change (possibly straight into the wind) and very unsafe shores.
All of this giving prudent sailors another reason to avoid the area, and sail west and north (or south^^), unless there is some margin to be made.
And the Shackles overall, extend barely more than 300 miles westward from the Garundian continent. Any decent ship, sailing a slovenly 5 knots will have gained enough westing to circle around the cannibal Islands after only three days. Sailing west for three days and save yourself much of the trouble by being robbed and plundered ?
I guess, that makes it an easy choice.
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It seems to me that piracy in the Shackles basically doesn't make economic sense as written, since they're not on the way to anywhere except Sargava (with whom they have a treaty :P), and they don't actually have their own export economy.
So if you want to make things a bit more rational, you'll need to do two things:
1. Invent some trade for the area. That means either A. more exporters south of the Shackles in Garund, or B. exporters within the Shackles themselves. Or both. Given the pervasiveness of piracy in the Shackles, there will need to be a really high value of trade to justify the loss rate.
2. Invent a reason for trade to go through the Shackles themselves rather than further out at sea. I suggest sea monsters, storms, and other obstacles that make the loss rate in the Arcadian ocean higher than the loss rate to the pirates within the Shackles.
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Yeah, the Carribbean (and let's not kid ourselves, that's what the Shackles are based on )were more spacious, with stronger spanish colonies ( extending into the hinterlands) to be robbed or serve as targets, and with enough separation of islands and ports - and semi-civillized islands in between. Plus, one had basically four to five nations to rob each other blind^^
But of course, one could have Chelian vessels "offer" convoys to protect against piracy, with the caveat of having to trade in Correntyn or Westcrown afterwards, or pay a certain percentage to the convoy. Might even work for Andorans.
What one would need is produce, some places for peaceful exhchange and some means of transportation
Actually trade by the undersea realms might not be a bad idea to come ashore in the Shackles (nicely maritime) or further south, since access to the ports from underwater through the myriad of waterways from the Shackles would be well worth approaching "civilization"
Having sea-elves, gillmen or locatah trade corals, pearls, sponges, tortoiseshell, clams and underwater exotica for non-corrosive metals (bronze and brass alloys might come to mind), Sahuagin trading for slaves in return for whalebones (and I mean the real skeletal bones) or meat and lubber. Exotic poisons (blowfish anyone ? Or blue octopus ? Sea Snake venom ? Sea anemone paralytics ?), crystalline compounds, or even strange metals like manganese which would be of interest to alchemists might be worth trading.
Underwater treasure seeking from sunken ships and ruins might yield some trade as well. One could even consider "undersea slaving" as an unethical, but profitable business. Have your oysterbanks farmed by sea-elves or who-ever....
So let's draw up some underwater realms (or reaches), where localized or nomadic sea folk roam or harvest trade goods, and ship them into above-water ports....
Hey, I can really envision some Locatah harnessing a giant sea turtle trailing long nets loaded with kelp, clams, sponges, old clamsheels from the depths and strange fittings from old Atzlanti ships.... swimming into a harbour and offering their produce in some fun, sparkling floating market.... alongside inland traders who float foodstuff downriver in canoes or trading barges, exchanging watermelons for sponges, brass spear heads for worked tortoiseshell and preserved leathers for the jawbone of a large sperm whale. Huge bundles of copra being hauled overhead by sailors on tackles, alongside casks full of whale- and/or palmoil, nutmeg and even more exotic spices. All the riches of the Indies
Now that's how you win a No Prize Vikingson. :-)
Now ....what the heck is a "no prize" ? *putting on his bets Jack Aubrey face*
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Most relevant:
Rather than rewarding fans for simply identifying such errors, a No-Prize was only awarded when a reader successfully explained why the continuity error was not an error at all.
I think the No Prize is really important for tabletop gamers who love pointing out errors, but aren't willing to show how the text can work anyway.
Most relevant:
Rather than rewarding fans for simply identifying such errors, a No-Prize was only awarded when a reader successfully explained why the continuity error was not an error at all.I think the No Prize is really important for tabletop gamers who love pointing out errors, but aren't willing to show how the text can work anyway.
I don't think I qualify, since I am just trying to help out those people who try to make sense out of the "production value" of the S&S AP and the accompanying books like "Isles of the Shackles" to come up with some ideas where to get their "victims" from. I don't try to explain the continuity, I draw up a possible plan as how to possibly proceed.
I am really befuddled why no-one actually went for staking out some "undersea trade" or "undersea realms" when they drew up the "Oceans of Golarion" article in "Raiders of the Fever Sea". Or just about anything in "Isles of the Shackles".
Masses of intelligent undersea races and species.... and no factual concepts as just where to put them.
Well the Shackles does have some exports, plunder. The goods they are pirating get sold in Shackles ports and then shipped north. So while there should be healthy merchant (fencing) opperations throughout the region.
I like the idea of undersea trade as well.
For my own campaign I wanted more "good" options for my players. So I have increased some of the tension with Cheliax and added a few settlements along the slithering coast and many, slave worked mining and agriculturaal intrests. This gives the crew options to go after settlements and free slaves, take from oppressors and so forth as opposed to raiding poor fishing villages. This unbeknownst to me until this tread makes for further reasoning behind the trade in the region.
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There is another trade and merchantile endeavour that has occured to me, which reasonably makes sense for the Shackles
Shipbuilding. There is lots of hardwoods on the coast, enough water (in rivers) to turn mills for cutting and planing, there are reasonably enough customers needing ships refitted and basically, with captains seizing ships often enough, there is also a reasonable supply of used and refurbished ships (no, NO squibbing^^).
Which might mean there being a land-based trade for sailcloth, weaving and actually producing the fibres, as well as good hemp ("manila hemp" ringing a bell ) and a sizable trade for pitch, tar and copra (to seal the planks), much of which can be made from free-growing palms. We might also enter natural rubber and plantations for that.
So there might be a small scale (som cutters or luggers or small craft) seasonal community "grazing" islands for palms and their produce.
Just another idea.
And I guess, the Shackles would be a reasonably nice maret for most metal produce themselves : raw iron, weaponry, bronze guns (?)... unless one starts placing some healthy mines in the Shackles.
And this way, it might really make sense not to "plunder" every ship going into the Shackles, since that would strangulate trade the region actually needs.
Sargavia and the pirates of the Shackles have an agreement that the Pirates of the shackled will not attack ships headed into or out of the Sargavia. (This is in the campaign guides).
Bloodcove is supposed to be a hub of valuable items coming out of the Mwagbi expanse, but is also a pirate city run by the Aspis Consorsium. (This is in the campaign guides).
So it is easy to think that shipping skirts way around the Shackles but there is no threat from the shackled pirates once then get south of the shackles
Along comes the PC’s and they are not shackled pirates so they raid in a relatively pirate free area, eventually this will get the attention of the free pirates. If the party does not come to join the Hurricane king, Sargavia may put pressure on the free pirates to reel in the rogue pirates that are messing up their shipping lanes. If too many ships are hit the Aspis Consorium may step into the picture driving the PC’s to seek protection from the free pirates.
Im also increasing the guards on the ships in ths shipping lanes as the players reputation grows.
I'm saying at the start that they can sell their pluner in Bloodcove as long as they stay friendly with the Aspis C. Senghor on the other hand charges 200 GP tax for a non-allied ships to enter their port to sell their wares. Senghor is my game is also anti-pirate so they are much more suspicious of stolen items entering their city.
Anyway that's the way I'm playing it.
There's the pirates of Firegrass Island though, who do not really care about the council aand any treaties.
And the Shackles council will only defend Sargava against Cheliax. Nothing about "protected trade" there. They are obliged not to help or hinder them (and Besmara smiles on those who "make" their luck) , but that does not apply to foreign traders anyway.
Nevermind the Freebooters from Ilizmagorti, who could care less about any Shackles treaties^^
Has anyone added any additional settlements, nations or colonies that might help flavor this out. Specifically I am trying to figure out why people would sail down the west coast past the eye and the Shackles instead of down the east coast and deal with what seems less trouble. It might be longer but more trading partners along the way.
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Mostly I have added island trade-regions to the Shackles themselves.
South of Sargava, there are - in my Golarion - at least three sizable nations
Hydreja : A nation of Mwangi humans and elves ruled by a cabal of "eternal" druids, who feel open to the world, but for religious dogmatics do not think it wise, to have their kin live or even die too far away from their spiritual homeland. Elves are regarded as superior specimen in a cycle of reincarnation, with corresponding privileges. (yes, non-good elves^^). These guys are very good at pottery and glazing or exceptional beauty, as well as traders for major inland spices and competent sailors as well, even if they stick to coastal and shallow water craft which take them to Segoth and Sargava, but not much further. They are said to have "enslaved" rocs and various tribes of Strix to serve as airborne assailants armed with alchemy, and many pirates are... loath to haunt their coasts. Oddly enough Ships from hermia have been repeatedly sighted in their seas
The Purple Coral Bight: a federation of islands and sub-surface kingdoms stretching down the otherwise barren south western coast of Garund. Rich in Corals, all sorty of treasure from the depths of the Sea. Great trading partners, but their territory is riddled with all sorts of tabboos and tribal laws on passage through, so trade with them only exits around the outer rim of their territory. Passing through the Purple Coral Bight is risky, both navigational (few if any maps exist and orient themselves on strange phenomena) for the reefs jutting up unexpectetdly, and socially since tribal laws require frequent stops, reversal of courses after having viited certain territories and hard to judge (from the surface) zones of exclusion. Going by them out west is... adding another thousand miles or so to your cruise, IF you have a clear idea how far their rule actually stretches.
There are only a few nomadic tribal ares inland from the Bight, and Gnolls and Orcs roam (and rule) wide parts of these Hinterlands. About their leadership and organisation almost nothing is known
The Cape : Ruled by a less-than-friendly kingdom of dwarves who are (or feel ) under constant attacks by southern Gnolls and Orks. Who incidentally view the Cape as their holy ground. The dwarves speak an odd and disticntive dialect, an offspring of traditional dwarven speech thousands of years off, and have an utterly self-reliant attitude
The Cape is very rich in minerals and gems, with highland plateaus providing rich farming grounds and while its coasts are rocky and steep a few safe harbours ( and many craggy reefs ) exist, where trade could flourish and provisions be bought. There arerumours of slavery or indenture, but none have ever been confirmed.
The dwarves are notoriously suspicious and organized along stringend lines, making them inflexible if not outright hostile, claiming mostly anyone to be either a spy, or an infiltrator or a shapechanged entity. If a ship makes it into their waters, it is usually forbidden to land, and if provisioned, this is only done from barges. Only a few accounts exist of the land itself, secretly written down by mages teleporting inland and sneaking around teh countryside for days and weeks.
There is also wild talk of dwarven ships without sails who "thud" through the night and sink foreign vessels by simply barging through them with steel rams, but this is probably old sailors' yarn. Right ?
Climatically, in southern-sphere winters, the climate of the oceans around the Cape becomes pretty hostile, too, as storms wreck around the half of the globe, unimpeded by land,, and whip up tremendous swells going straight east, making traversing the Cape to the west a daunting task. In summer, the Dwarves have been reported to harvest seals on islands South of the Cape, and at least once, one of their ships has been reported in the icy waters far down south.
So basically I heavily channeled from real life Africa into my Southern Garund (about which so little is actually told in the books), but "the Cape" is actually the most significant block for any traders going south and west around Garund.
There is also the archealogical trade from the Atzlanti island to consider.
And... I don't know how dangerous Nex and Geb are in your campaign (they are definitely dangerous and utterly ruthless in our Golarion ), so sailing past their coast is... possibly just not really recommended
Also, realistically speaking take into account that high seas longtitudal navigation cannot be accomplished without a very (!) precise and fine tuned timekeeping device to establish your longtitude. nevermind being dependant upon spotting the sun at midday. This should make "high seas" and off-coast navigation very difficult without either powerful magic or the latest devices from Numeria. Making navigation off-coast... just stupidly dangerous
There ARE, after all dragons in the oceans. Nevermind the Kraken
Yoink!Mostly I have added island trade-regions to the Shackles themselves.
South of Sargava, there are - in my Golarion - at least three sizable nations
I have been Yoinked ? how dare you ? I shall feed your grimy remains to the cannibals of Owtengu island... owwwww, the "Cesspool" ?
*grin* that will come up in a session a week or three from now.
So we have had a number of suggestions about adding some settlements to the region justifying additional trad through and around the shackles.
Also several people have noted that early in the pirates carrer they should avoid the shackles openly because they are easy pickings for more experienced pirates.
So my question is how far is too far.
Most of the trading action is going to be it seems to me in the waters north of the shackles and further east near Cheliax, Osiri, Andoran or even up the coast toward Varisia. Granted those waters have more traffice of warships not just merchants.
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One potential source for descriptions of the undersea kingdoms vikingson mentioned is an old 2nd Edition AD&D product called Dragonlance: Otherlands. It's divided into three sections, the third of which is a network of neighboring undersea kingdoms. Replace a few names, find a good spot on the map of Golarion, and it should fit in quite well.
What's involved in getting into the Inner Sea? Cheliax has a blockade at the Arch of Aroden, but what does that mean in game terms? How many ships does a blockade take, and how close are they to each other? Could a lone pirate ship crewed by people with darkvision slip silently through the Arch?
True, but then I have a great deal more prep to do creating all the stuff in the southern part of the continent. All the stuff vikingson wrote above would help, but it would still be a bigger undertaking.
Part of this is just my own ignorance of how blockades worked in the age of sail. Isn't it about a twenty-mile gap? How many ships would it take to be able to see anyone entering? Is there some sort of historical analogue I can go research?
Plan B is I declare it impassible and work on developing southern Garund.
Would it be conceivable to retcon the region to say the Shackles are NOT on Sargava's payroll? I guess it's a key element of Sargava's growing economic troubles, but if it creates an illogical situation, I say handwave it away.
I'm willing to say the Sargavans tricked the Shackles pirates into sinking the Chelaxian invasion fleet, say by "leaking" information that the fleet was coming to clear the region of pirates once and for all. This gave the former colony's shipbuilding industry a leg up in expanding their sea trade.
So now Sargava is a major exporter of exotic goods and mineral wealth, and importer of manufactured goods from Avistan. Ripe plunder for the pirates who have an additional hate-on for the tricksy Sargavans.
While I don't hate the idea of expanding Garund, I'm lazy, and erasing a few lines of canon is sooo much easier.
I thought that the Shackles was simply where all these pirates were based, not where they actually do their piracy.
Maybe it's because I live on an island, but once my players saw the actual scale of the map and figured out how small the Shackles really are, they just assumed that the pirates had their bases there but harried the coasts of Avistan and Garund everywhere. Why else would you blockade the Inner Sea, if pirates weren't a clear and present danger? The blockade must be a massive expense, after all.
That is certainly part of it but the Shackles are advantageous for several reasons for the pirates. Sargava is one of 3 Colonies 2 are further south and still largely Chellish. Droon the lizardfolk empire is also to the south. So their is significant trade coming from south Garund to the north. The islands of Azlant and the Eye force a bottle neck in the shipping lanes. The open Acadian Ocean is one of the more dangerous places on the planet as it is home to Aboleths- hey we don't have mind flayers in PF. Lets make them giant fish and have them live in the ocean rather than the underdark. Drifting east might take you close to pirate waters but drifting west sets you up to be attacked by a creature you will never know struck that will dominate you and your crews mind and force you to live the rest of your days in deep ocean trenches. If I have my choice of fights I'll take cutlass over tentacle just about any day.
Also remember that the Shackles themselves are communities that have trading concerns. Some islands like the Ilse of Taldas are tropical resorts to wayward Taldan rich folk. Piracy also requires good fences. Historically business needed approval or had contracts for goods. So pirates need a location to find the "legit" merchants can buy stuff and take it to port.
Happily, some of the more frequently-used trade routes are explained and mapped in Ships of the Inner Sea (map on p. 7). Given how tiny the Shackles are, I'm not surprised to learn that no trade routes go right through it.
If you want to get south of Azlant before sailing west you get close to the Shackles.
If you want to get to the west coast of Garund you get close to the Shackles.
If you sail from the far east, east you have to go around the south of Arcadia and guess what if you want to then get to the inner sea you get close to the Shackles.
Sure would help if we had a Golarion world map . . . .
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Sure would help if we had a Golarion world map . . . .
HERE you go.
The Mordant Spire elves are known to sink *any* vessel going too close to Azlant, so going NW from the Inner Sea is out of the question, except for the Linnorm Kings who stay far to the north.
The Chelaxian and Andoran colonies must have ships that either go through the sunken continent (unlikely), or they sail around SW of Azlant - meaning they leave the Inner Sea, turn due South to the West of Mediogalti Island (to avoid the Eye of Abendego), and then go around from there. That might be the ideal spot for Shackles pirates to venture out and catch ships, in addition to Rahadoumi, Sargavan, Mwangi, and Aspis vessels, as mentioned elsewhere.
Whoa, didn't realize that Azlant still had that much land area above water -- somebody could actually set up shop with a serious amount of population there. Also didn't realize that Casmaron was that small in the East-West direction. Presumably Vudra is that large peninsula on the South end of it.
Also interesting to note the geological differences compared to Earth. Golarion has island arcs of sorts, but they are much coarser and fuzzier than those on Earth. Also has a lot more examples of a piece of a continent being slowly split off, like Baja California/Gulf of California, but usually bigger.
EDIT: Just noticed the disclaimer at the bottom: "Not to Scale".
Also remember that the real danger of Azlant is that what exists below the surface is ruled by Aboleths (mind raping cuthlu inspired mind flare like fish) floating by is signing up to be a mind controlled slave living out your days in the deep ocean trenches.