|
How do people feel about having to create a backstory for your character? I know I like have a sense of where my character has been and where he/she wants to go.
Do you think your DM/GM should use your history for in game experience?
Is a backstory necessary for any character? I know I believe so, how else does a goblin rogue party with a Fetchling Paladin.
I realized as I was making a new character for a campaign today that the longest and hardest issue I have with characters is making their backstory work. Does anyone else experience this?
|
Absolutely! The DM should use the back story to place the character into the campaign. The back story needs to be a cooperative effort to enhance and understand why the PC is special or unique. All great heroes have interesting back stories. Why shouldn't yours?
If your back story is not working, then change it. Get with your DM to find your PC's right place in the world.
Slay many Dragons!
Mazra
I think it's not really a character unless it has some kind of background, description - not just physical, but personality description, and some idea of goals (these don't have to be inflexible and can change naturally in the context of the game).
They don't have to be completely written down at L.1 though; I usually start with something short (because I kinda suck at coming up with things), then flesh it out with details - all of this has to be subject to DM approval of course - as inspiration strikes me.
DMs can and should use background for fun stuff.
I like backstory to start off very lite (2 or 3 tastey bullet point hooks only).
I dont like to 'invest' too much in case it turns out i dont like the character
for me much more important is:
-the fore story
-whether i can then slip stuff later into the background as things involves and we are 2 to 5 sessions in....
i often see backstory as the game i never got to play. its done. the future, erm, is the future!!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
i often see backstory as the game i never got to play. its done. the future, erm, is the future!!
That's a fair point; I think personality is more important. However, backstory can help in that it provides some of the reasons why a character is the way he or she is, and why they have the goals they have.
Of course a lot of goals will develop within the game and I don't think people should be wedded to (much less forced to be wedded to) things decided hastily at 1st level.
And, yeah, backstory doesn't have to be, and probably shouldn't be, a novella; especially early on. For one thing few DMs are going to want to read 4-6 long backstories for each PC of how their life was as an orphan and crap.
I realized as I was making a new character for a campaign today that the longest and hardest issue I have with characters is making their backstory work. Does anyone else experience this?
As a GM, I require approximately a half page back story for every PC. I will likely use much of that back story to flavor the world and draw in the PCs.
As a player, my back stories tend towards longer than that minimum, simply because it's probably my favorite part of character creation.
I have found from my experience, characters i don't write backstories for tend to become boring quick. And i dont seem to mind if they die... lol
Characters i write backstories for are another thing, i feel a connection to them and the way they see their world. And this is necessary for good roleplaying.
As a GM, I push all players for a backstory as well. If you leave me good hooks, like some villain or event from your past that could come back to haunt you, I will almost always integrate it into the campaign. Once the event resolves itself in the campaign, it usually ends up giving some sort of unique boon to the character, like an item, a free feat or something along those lines.
I like to reward my players for being creative.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I always enjoy when the cheese-monster at the table has to come up with a hugely convoluted backstory to explain how his character has traits from all over the shop, worships an obscure deity, etc. etc. etc.
My experience is that they kill off everyone that they can so that the GM can't use a emotive tug on them and so they have an excuse to be a hard-bitten, calculating killer.
"I was born under a mystical sign which gave me a magic touch (oracle dip) yet could never contain the wild rage inside me (barbarian), after I saved the life of a caged giant bird it turned out to be a neurotic-obsessive potion-brewer who followed me for the rest of my days (synthesist follower used as mount) despite my loathing for magic (superstitious) which began when a wizard ate my dad..."
|
The way I see it, adventurers have to be at least a little bit insane. If you set aside metagame knowledge, these are people who are driven to go out into places that (as far as they know) are frequented by creatures that would kill them dead without even breaking a sweat. Frex, the Verduran Forest in Andoran and Taldor--both civilized countries for quite some time--is known to be inhabited by ettercaps (CR 3; kind of tough for a bunch of novices), savage fey (redcaps are CR 6), and *dragons*. Why would anyone sane set foot in a place like that? So I like to put together enough backstory to justify, in my mind, the character being the sort of person who would do that. Or at the very least, who wouldn't run away from the adventure when recruited into the Westcrown resistance/called on to fight the goblins who broke up the festival/asked to watch over your old friend's daughter for a month/etc.
|
|
I'm of the "I am about to make my character's backstory" school. I tend to think a single paragraph is all that's needed. Birth place, family life, and reason for adventuring. I tend to develop personality as the game begins and plays out. A backstory can sometimes be a bit limiting and other times not make sense. People write themselves up as great heroes but then start at level 1?
I will make an exception if the GM specifically wants to incorporate the characters past into the game. However, if it is a module or AP and its going to be straight forward, I would prefer not to do the work since it wont matter anyway.
People write themselves up as great heroes but then start at level 1?
Obviously, it's good to use some judgment here - but level 1 PCs are pretty heroic. Most NPCs are commoners (10s and 11s in all abilities, +0 saves and attack, 3hp, 2 skill points), or at best, experts (4hp, 6 skill points). Older editions of the game referred to a 1st-level fighter as a "veteran," and for good reason - he's head and shoulders above the supporting cast.
The Alexandrian has a very good (but lengthy) read on expectations for PC and NPC power levels, though it does tend to fly in the face of most folks' preconceptions about the game world.
|
|
Absolutely. Heck, the point of Role Playing Games is to play the role of a particular character that you created. And to do so, one has to know the character's story. Otherwise, the character might as well be a statblock and abilities list.
The more the players properly play the roles of the character according to the backstories they provided me, the more I end up rewarding them.
LOVE backstory. As a player I want the GM to use the details I provide to tie my character into the game.
As a GM I love a good backstory for ways to increase participation and involvement.
I tend to be character first and optimizer second so I understand some folks are not of this style but I like telling stories more than winning.
I typically don't have a problem coming up with a few sentences about my character's background; but I find that I don't truly get to know my characters until I've run them through a level or two. So if a GM requires a rich and detailed backstory I need to be given the latitude to edit it once my character and I become better acquainted.
How do people feel about having to create a backstory for your character? I know I like have a sense of where my character has been and where he/she wants to go.
Do you think your DM/GM should use your history for in game experience?
Is a backstory necessary for any character? I know I believe so, how else does a goblin rogue party with a Fetchling Paladin.
I realized as I was making a new character for a campaign today that the longest and hardest issue I have with characters is making their backstory work. Does anyone else experience this?
Man! I LOVE backstories!!! Traits are just about the coolest thing I've found in the pathfinder system... my favorite character creation system for an RPG used to be "Traveller" -- man, the stories and histories you could cook up during character creation were AMAZING... sometimes your character even DIED while it was being generated! Hilariously detailed.
Most recently I got really really excited about my cleric build for pathfinder only to learn that our GM (new to me) is really going to play the AP "By the book" and not deviate much if at all for backstories... I *LOVE* the idea of exploring personal motives and plot seeds for individual characters... I really look forward to one day playing a campaign where everybody's past is a really big deal, if not the main thing!
My current character has "birthmark" and "helpful" as traits... and it pretty much laid the foundation of my character (A desna support cleric, with travel/luck domains -- who's basically on a sacred mission to adjust the odds in the favor of the party so that they can achieve the potential the gods have planned for them!)
My plan is to diversify a bit in skills so that I can "Help other" on as many skill checks other party members have to make... +4 for helpful +1 from guidance Osiron as much as possible will I hope translate to increased party success, as well as a suite of reroll skills in my progression to alter our destiny!
So yeah, backstory is very important to me... even if my plot-seeds don't make it into the adventure I still have a really good grasp as to what my character looks like, sounds like, and acts like as a result of the difficult choices I had to make in creation!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Man! I LOVE backstories!!! Traits are just about the coolest thing I've found in the pathfinder system... my favorite character creation system for an RPG used to be "Traveller" -- man, the stories and histories you could cook up during character creation were AMAZING... sometimes your character even DIED while it was being generated! Hilariously detailed.
I loved those; I sometimes wish there was a way to do that for D&D (now PF) - but it doesn't fit the game engine.
Many of my Traveller guys had to do bootleg anagathics during character creation, otherwise they'd be so aged by the time I was done generating that if they didn't die during their character creation career, they'd be in danger of dying of old age as soon as it was over. :p
And, yeah - Vicon is right; done correctly, "character creation backstory" can be an adventuring session in-and-of-itself, and not a boring one.
I'm not a fan of having to come up with a long and detailed backstory for a character. I prefer to come up with a personality, and a few sentences about his background, and a few about what he's doing lately. There's really no need to fill in all the details and we can work it out as it comes up (me- hey my character used to live in this city, do I have some contacts that can help us. DM - yeah sure) plus if gives the DM more room to work if it's just a framework (defined, but vague).
Depends on the level.
I prefer to start at lvl3 or above and then I create corresponding back stories for my character. The higher the level the better as I've been known to explain every skill and feat choice in my backgrounds.
I hate beginning at lvl 1 because in game terms that essentially represent a 17-21 yr old person fresh off the farm looking for adventure. Sure I can still make one up, but it's usually not as detailed.
Dpends on the group. I'm not really that good when it comes to making backstories since it seems like they would need to be overly complicated, and I'm not sure what flavor I could get away with and whatnot.
Dpends on the group. I'm not really that good when it comes to making backstories since it seems like they would need to be overly complicated, and I'm not sure what flavor I could get away with and whatnot.
Like I mentioned in my first post in this thread, I suck at backstories (at least when put "on the spot") but I will say there is no need for them to be overly complicated, or look at them from the angle of what flavor to get away with.
IMO the primary focus for any backstory - which doesn't have to be extensive - is just to explain/provide a rationale for the character's personality (as you envision it) and goals; why they're adventuring and what they hope to achieve (this can be basic, like gold, or something fairly simple like not wanting to be powerless "ever again," or seeking justice because X), and perhaps an adventuring hook or two.
In the hands of a sane person (not me) all this can be done in a paragraph or two, and no more is needed at L.1. Details can be fleshed out later. (Another thing I suck at is being concise).
Something brief you can share with the DM (and get input from the DM to help shape it/incorporate it into the campaign setting) and fellow players, short and un-complicated is the best because it should be something you can tell them at the first session so they get some idea what sort of person they're adventuring with (beyond "he's a L.1 Cleric of Jubilex, who I picked as his gawd because of the cool domains and for the weapon proficiency" - that's the meta-stuff, but the explanation of why your character is a Priest of Jubilex and what drives him/her/it).
As I've heard many folk say,
"Backstory? We're making my backstory."
It's a fair point. Nothing wrong with inventing backstory as you go along. You can custom-tailor your PC to the GM's game, instead of the other way around. Sometimes, a character you design doesn't get roleplayed as you originally intended. Not writing a backstory circumvents that whole issue!
However, I say it has its place. If the GM wants backstories, give them backstories.
|
|
I used to be a big proponent of backstories. Until I came to the conclusion it frontloads too much of the creation work. I now tend to play characters for awhile and than let a backstory work itself out.Backstory is a pretty integral part of character creation.
Unless playing a one shot, I have never been in a game in which the PCs had no backstories.
/agree
This is why I always run a short 0-level pre-adventure to help characters flesh their backstory out. Only the very basics are decided beforehand based on setting info I provide the players (whether starting in a village, a castle, a slaveyard, etc) and the rest they create. And then they STILL start at 1st level having created their own backstory.
I started out doing this because I had a couple players that just could not or would not do a backstory ever, and I wanted everyone to have at least something to connect their character to the world. Now that we have done a few, even those that like to write novels tend to only write a short blurb, then play the rest out. It is a very good tool, at least for our group.
How do people feel about having to create a backstory for your character? I know I like have a sense of where my character has been and where he/she wants to go.
Do you think your DM/GM should use your history for in game experience?
Is a backstory necessary for any character? I know I believe so, how else does a goblin rogue party with a Fetchling Paladin.
I realized as I was making a new character for a campaign today that the longest and hardest issue I have with characters is making their backstory work. Does anyone else experience this?
Yes: If done right, a DM/GM can make unique fights/campaigns for your party, and would allow you to create the character (and story) you want to have happen.
The biggest thing you need to have happen is to talk with your DM/GM regularly, if you can, and do some homework on your own; think what you (or better yet, your character) want(s) to have happen, write it on pen and paper (or type it up and print it off or put the file on a computer or something) and talk it over with the DM/GM. If they approve, they'll probably agree and put it at some point in the campaign/story, whenever they see fit. If (s)he wants/needs to change some things, (s)he'll probably talk it over with you, and you guys can compromise to get a satisfactory outcome. If the DM/GM can't do it, then it's back to the drawing board.
My PF/D&D experience is that a backstory or something can have an affect on what your character does, as mine is right now, and it allows you to be the character and have the campaign you want to have.
The largest problems with this is that other PC's will want their ideas and such implemented as well, and it's like show & tell; another issue is that if you provide a scenario, and the DM/GM runs it through as is, or with revisions that you know about, you'll know exactly what will happen, and that could spoil the experience for both the DM/GM, and the other PC's (and perhaps yourself, since the mystery of the matter is what makes the gameplay intriguing).
It's a tricky process; but again, if it is done correctly, you'll definitely have memorable/enjoyable gaming experiences. I hope this helped you out.
Sometimes, a character you design doesn't get roleplayed as you originally intended. Not writing a backstory circumvents that whole issue!
IMO that's a non-problem, or at least not as much of a problem as it is sometimes made out to be; a character can have a character arc/development. Experiences in the game can cause their personality to develop just as reasonably as experiences (backstory) prior to the game.
Also lets say you start playing a character a certain way at L.1 but by L.3 or something you've decided you want to play them a radically different way. It's still good to have an in-character reason, whether you had a backstory or not. (And no I don't mean by this "you can't play your character how you want unless you come up with X" - I mean it's still good to devise a reason/rationale/in-character explanation, however flimsy and made-up-on-the-spot, for in-character behavior changes).
More important than backstory are beliefs, values, viewpoints, character traits and all the other Burning Wheel s!!$. Those are what determine how your should RP/how your character will behave.
A backstory can grow out of the character traits or the character traits can grow out of the backstory. A backstory informs and strengthens the character and gives him a reason to be the way he is. Having both is ideal but one is more important than the other.
Sometimes, a character you design doesn't get roleplayed as you originally intended. Not writing a backstory circumvents that whole issue!IMO that's a non-problem, or at least not as much of a problem as it is sometimes made out to be; a character can have a character arc/development. Experiences in the game can cause their personality to develop just as reasonably as experiences (backstory) prior to the game.
There's character arc, and there's just plain contradiction. For instance, you write that your wizard hates orcs. Then you find he's helping a little orc lady cross the street. Sure, you can just retcon, but I find it can be nice to skip to the punch.
Also lets say you start playing a character a certain way at L.1 but by L.3 or something you've decided you want to play them a radically different way. It's still good to have an in-character reason, whether you had a backstory or not. (And no I don't mean by this "you can't play your character how you want unless you come up with X" - I mean it's still good to devise a reason/rationale/in-character explanation, however flimsy and made-up-on-the-spot, for in-character behavior changes).
Contradicting the written personality and contradicting what's happened, them's is two different things.
My characters backstory starts with the first game session.
Ok, since you're not alone in the "we're making my backstory" crew, note that taken literally this implies that even his in-character reason for his abilities, class, feats, skills, &tc. are entirely meta-mechanical explanations because you're effectively saying that, as far as your concerned, the character had no prior existence (or at least it effectively does not exist) prior to their first adventure session.
Lets say he takes the Reactionary trait, then. Some other character asks him, in game, "Wow, you seem to have the uncanny ability to react to threats" and, since he has no backstory prior to his first adventure, his in-character explanation would be "yeah, I took Reactionary as a Trait because it gives me a +2 trait bonus to initiative."
Now, I know people don't mean something like this. So then no need to handwave it away in posts here.
I mean, truly, take it from me: I'm candid here in admitting that when I first start a character, I have at best a sketchy idea of their background and personality. Usually I have a dumbfounded look if asked for additional detail early on. But I don't have no conception whatsoever of it as the "I'm making my backstory" retort implies, and I doubt any of the people making that retort really have absolutely nothing in mind regarding where - at least in general terms - their character may have grown up, why they worship the diety you chose for them (or why they worship none at all, or several), at least a vague idea of how they might have acquired their basic class skills, if not an idea of who might have mentored them. Usually people who insist upon no backstory also want to claim no siblings and no living parents, so by default this creates a background of being an orphan.
Perhaps since they have no background, they were spawned in the clone vats under the loving guiding supervision of The Computer, who they were, through the artificial memory-implants by which they also gained all their skills and knowledge of class abilities, simultaneously implanted the love and trust for said Friend Computer when they emerged, fully formed in an adult body, from said clone vats. But note even this is a sort of background.
Obviously we aren't taking it literally. The point is that nothing of particular interest has happened to the character up until the beginning of the campaign.
|
I think characters need backgrounds. I use the carrot method to get them from players. Write a background and get stuff. maybe just a few skill points, maybe a free trait or even a feat if I feel one fits well. Plus I try if there is a hook in the background to make it part of any future plots where it makes sense.
Obviously we aren't taking it literally.
Well, if it's so obvious, then people can stop saying it and actually give OP some, I dunno, helpful tips, instead of saying "hey, as far as I care, my character was an amnesiac drooling vacantly into a cup on a streetcorner - or not! Hey, whatever - prior to the first die roll for initiative."
|
Obviously we aren't taking it literally.Well, if it's so obvious, then people can stop saying it and actually give OP some, I dunno, helpful tips, instead of saying "hey, as far as I care, my character was an amnesiac drooling vacantly into a cup on a streetcorner - or not! Hey, whatever - prior to the first die roll for initiative."
How you respond to those statements says more about your mindset than the mindset of those who write them.
Your FACE should stop saying it and actually give OP some I dunno helpful tips.
I like discovering those reasons in-game, rather than making them up beforehand. That doesn't mean I don't think about them. I wrote up a one-page story for my character in Rise of the Runelords explaining his attraction to Shalelu.
And then we never played that game, and it was wasted.
So then to the same extent was the entire rest of the character-creation process and whatever other setup went into planning that campaign, but for some reason people only seem to focus on backrground as the 'you know, if you do one, it might end up being wasted 'cause you might never play.'
Now, of course you do need a character as a precondition to play, while, in theory, you can look at the game as an entirely tactical wargaming exercise and not need a personality for said character at all.
But that's really just a good reason for not fully-fleshing out a background right at the beginning. In a role-playing game, it's not a good reason for having nothing whatsoever; or pretending to for the purpose of posting in this thread.
How you respond to those statements says more about your mindset than the mindset of those who write them.
Actually, the converse is true in this case.
Now this statement is one that could be made about a number of posters in, say, RavingDork's recent thread. But I've contributed more than a few helpful tips in this one - and haven't gotten as nasty and personal as a lot of the people posting un-necessary snark about RD in his thread.
I've been substantive even in my critique of the people asserting "don't bother with background" - and given them credit for not really meaning it (and this is why they shouldn't say it) literally.
Indeed, the only person I've slighted is myself - because I know my weakness (and I'm not making up how very bad I am at coming up with backgrounds - or even names for characters).
Anyhow, TOZ, if you want to take people to task and post things like that, I could give you some helpful suggestions of a few people in other threads it might be more appropriately aimed at. So far I've had the good grace to keep myself out of those exchanges, but if you're up for it PM me and I'll give you a list of names.
The background is the one thing you don't NEED to start the campaign.
Now, of course you do need a character as a precondition to play, while, in theory, you can look at the game as an entirely tactical wargaming exercise and not need a personality for said character at all.
Oh, and by the way, I didn't say the advice was obvious. I said that the idea that unless otherwise stated the character was not created in a laboratory by a computer should be obvious to anybody who wants to take the advice at all seriously, instead of poke holes by taking it as literally as possible. ;)
|
|
Anyhow, TOZ, if you want to take people to task and post things like that, I could give you some helpful suggestions of a few people in other threads it might be more appropriately aimed at. So far I've had the good grace to keep myself out of those exchanges, but if you're up for it PM me and I'll give you a list of names.
Oh lord, lead me not into temptation. :)
Oh, and by the way, I didn't say the advice was obvious. I said that the idea that unless otherwise stated the character was not created in a laboratory by a computer should be obvious to anybody who wants to take the advice at all seriously, instead of poke holes by taking it as literally as possible. :33
It's not really serious advice then; except if we step back and find out that, since it's not meant literally and cannot be plausibly meant literally (you said it's "obviously" not meant literally), we don't actually disagree: substantively what is meant is go with a short background early on, don't feel the need to flesh it out in detail: because 1) it's too much work early on 2) it's not necessary early on 3) you won't even have decided on everything about your character early on 4) nobody's going to want a long backstory about your character early on.
This however is not at all the same as saying "don't bother with one at all." Because: as a RPG, you'll want to have some idea about your character, even early on and people at the gaming table will want a "short in-character introductory summary" - which might include why they're all adventuring together (even if the campaign backstory is they never met each other until the first session, and are all thrown together to go do X); a short paragraph summary ("Fred the fighter is from Andoran where he learned how to be. . .a fighter. . .from. . .one o the freedom-fighters. he wanted to become a heroic adventurer, inspired by the usual blather of going to help free all the orcs from enslavement at the hands of their overlords, so said orcs can be free. Oh yeah he does this 'cause Fred is a half-orc, I forgot to tell you. Fred's mother was liberated from spinsterhood by a orc one day and nine months later Fred was born." - there, done, and done on the spot by someone who sucxorz at it - as you can tell 'cause, wtf, Fred the fighter?).
|
|
Part of the issue with backstory that I have seen goes back to whether your character creation process starts with the crunch or the story. If you are someone that prefers to build the crunch and then let the story develop from those numbers interacting with the world, backstory is not necessary nor does it usually come easy. If you are someone who likes to start with a character story or personality and then match the crunch to that vision, backstory is THE most essential part of your character.
Then you have players like one of mine in our current group. He made his first character in our group and we asked him for a backstory. He responded his character was a loner who had no friends and was an orphan. After further questioning, we discovered his previous GMs had used any and every NPC connection in his character backgrounds against him at some point to blackmail, torment, or manipulate his character. Having experienced enough of this, he decided to remove these leverage points.
I think as a GM you have to sort of allow your players the leeway to "get there how they get there" when it comes to backgrounds. If you are running a game where you absolutely have to have backstories, either help them write one up or do a short pre-adventure run for them to help create it. There also has to be a trust there that you as a GM will provide both good and bad equally from a character's history as the game goes forward and not use it in lieu of having no good ideas for adventure design.
Just my 2 cents.
I said that the idea that unless otherwise stated the character was not created in a laboratory by a computer should be obvious to. . .wait! nobody. . .please don't report me to Friend Computer for Treason.
D'oh! I forgot that not everyone might know about this.
Stay Alert
Trust No One
Keep Your Laser Handy.
Trust The Computer
The Computer Is Your friend.