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couple of questions on how to deal with upcoming possible scenarios.
charge vs expeditious evacuation
PC charges and NPC casts expeditious evacuation in PCs path.
would you say the NPC has to have the target square picked out when he readies or can the NPC target the square in response to seeing the charge path?
charge is a single combined action... if the charge path is interupted by an expeditious evacuation prior to the first 30 feet (or distance of first move) would you say the rest of the actions for the round are wasted? (as the charge is now interupted) or would you say that as long as the PC has not moved more than 30 feet he can chose new actions for his standard.
would you require a reflex save to NOT fall in the pit or would you simply allow the player to end the charge?
charge vs create pit
all of these questions apply to create pit with the following aditions.
how much leeway would you give the PC for stoping his charge before reaching the sloped portion of the pit (causing a save to not fall in)
+caltrops
if the space the pit covers had been trapped with caltrops... would you give the caltrops an aditional chance to hit a player who fell in?
(in other words caltrops are on a set of squares. NPC charges (not caring about the caltrops taking the chance he will not be harmed) the NPC has a readied action to cast creat pit in that area as soon as the PC steps into the caltroped squares, caltrops make their attack failing to hit the PC, NPC casts readied pit, PC falls into the pit, should the PC be attacked by the caltrops again? any penalty this time?
no more pits caltrops + fog or obscuring mist, darkness or other vision impairing spells
caltrops are fun to use and easy to repair for any group with a channeling healer. but I am trying to figure out how to make them just a smidge more effective. would you say its a fair call to say that caltrops dropped in an area obscured by mist, fog or some other vision impairment would limit or cancel a PCs dex bonus to avoid the caltrops?
Well, for charging and create pit/expeditious evacuation, I'd simply allow the charger to make a jump check as part of his movement to leap over the pit.
I can't see any reason why caltrops wouldn't still work if you cast create pit on their square.
As for fog + caltrops, I don't think it would. Even if I tie you to a rock, you get to make a reflex save to avoid damage from a fireball, same is true if you don't see my fireball coming through an obscuring mist or other such spell.
caltrops make an attack roll with no bonus against AC10 + dex+ natural armor +2 if booted. what I am suggesting is removing the dex bonus or giving the caltrops a bonus to attack as the PC is less likley to see caltrops obsured by the mist or darkness or some other sight impeding effect.
jump check to leap the pit sounds right... but would they continue the charge or end on the other side as charge is not supposed to be allowed over hindered terain (I would consider a pit hindering)
Even if I tie you to a rock, you get to make a reflex save to avoid damage from a fireball,
To be fair, the OP seems to be discussing house rules, and a GM who doesn't house rule away being able to dodge a fireball while tied to a boulder probably isn't gonna house rule in the caltrops thing. :P
caltrops make an attack roll with no bonus against AC10 + dex+ natural armor +2 if booted. what I am suggesting is removing the dex bonus or giving the caltrops a bonus to attack as the PC is less likley to see caltrops obsured by the mist or darkness or some other sight impeding effect.
jump check to leap the pit sounds right... but would they continue the charge or end on the other side as charge is not supposed to be allowed over hindered terain (I would consider a pit hindering)
Fairly certain you can make a jump check as part of a charge, but I'm not 100% on that.
The Caltrops is going to depend on the spell. Obscuring Mist and Fog Cloud, for instance, give everyone concealment if within 5 ft. So in Fog Cloud or Obscuring Mist, the charger has a 20% miss chance to avoid the Caltrops.
Darkness is a little different. If Darkness decreases the lighting to dim light, then everyone has a 20% miss chance. If it drops the lighting to Darkness, then everyone has total concealment, and therefore, denied dexterity to AC.
I would actually suggest flipping those miss chances around.
The Charger, if the caltrops miss the attacker, has either a 20% or 50% chance of stumbling on the caltrops (allowing a second attack roll) anyway.
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Also, I would require a Reflex save.
Fail and the charging character falls in and takes damage. I would rule that the caltrops get no attack, but I could see allowing for one attack. I definitely think they should not get two attacks.
Success on the save, I would give the player two options:
(1) Stop short before the pit; OR
(2) Make an Acrobatics check to jump the pit and continue moving.
Either way, the charge is broken by the pit.
I meant, say I have caltrops in a hallway, and no pit, but I also cast Obscuring Mist.
A Fight charges me down that hallway, he doesn't know about the caltrops. When he comes upon them, the caltrops make an attack roll, if they miss, I roll percentile. If I roll in the 20%, then I make a second attack.
If there were caltrops at the bottom of a pit, I would simply roll once.
Tels that sounds good.. your saying that the player (totally oblivious to the presence of the caltrops may actually risk damage from the up to twice.
that sounds good. ... I think however that my players would feel a little cheeted. I think I can easily explain to them that they dont notice them thus dont get to use their dex bonus to help avoid them but the 20% chance to get attacked again would feel cheep to them.
I think i will run it as you say tells.
they can stop OR get an acrobatics to jump over continuing their move... but wont get an attack at the end as their momentum was interrupted by the jump. the benefit being that the character will not suffer the -2 to AC from the charge.
correct me if i am wrong but a pit has an area of effect of 20 feet right (10 = pit + 5 on either side = slope)
just want to set the right DC for the jump although I think jump checks are handled poorly in this game.
No, they don't take damage twice.
Player moves into Caltrop square, Caltrops makes an attack roll. It misses, roll percentile, if it comes up in the 20% or 50%, then roll another attack.
However, if the player enters the Caltrops square, and it hits on the first attack, the Caltrops don't get to attack again.
No, the are is a 10 ft by 10 ft square hole. If you're using a battleboard, it's 4 squares.
Here (click me). This shows spell templates. If you look at the 5' radius sphere, it is a 10 ft by 10 ft square box, or the size of the opening of the pit.
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Okay, for the pits ideas first...
I would think that the caster redoing his action with the trigger being "If the fighter charges then I cast create pit" is sufficient. When the Fighter STARTS his action to charge, the caster interrupts and puts a hole where he wants. The caster should not get to see the entire charge path, because he interrupts the fighter BEFORE his action happens.
Therefore the fighter gets to see where the hole appears and can reconsider his action since he has not actually started. However, as GM I would require him to take his movement first, since he announced he was charging and the movement is required first.
Also, ANY impediment, even an ally, prevents charging through that square. So a hole suddenly opening up prevents a charge through that particular square. It might be possible for a charge to take a different path though.
Caltrops and Obscuring Mist...
Obscuring Mist essentially provides concealment for anything BEYOND 5 feet. So as the fighter is rushing through the mist I would allow him to make a Perception check to notice the caltrops ahead. I would start with a DC 10 (the caltrop is very little and difficult to see), + 5 (terrible condition from Obscuring Mist) + 5 (creature distracted due to combat) for a DC 20. If he sees the caltrops he can react accordingly, if not, he runs into them.
Caltrops in a square that is targeted with Create Pit...
The caster has readied an action that after the fighter enters the square with caltrops and takes damage the caster will then Create a Pit. So the fighter runs into the space and takes damage and the pit is created. The caltrops fall into the pit along with the fighter. Of course the fighter just got hurt by the caltrops so he knows they are there and will try to avoid them when he lands as best he can. So I would leave the formula alone. Give the caltrops a second shot, but do not remove the Dex modifier. He knows they are there.
Note, if fighter does not suffer damage, the caster does not get to take his readied action in this particular set up.
IF the caster readies the spell to go off when the fighter enters the space, then the caster puts his spell on the ground when the fighter enters the space. I would then have the caltrops fall and the fighter might land on them. But the caltrops get only one chance at damage.
Regardless when the fighter falls I would give him a Reflex save to catch himself from falling in. I would have that end his movement.
These are just the ways I would rule based upon a few assumptions about timing.
I always wonder why DCs are so low.
caltrops, small and difficult to see = DC10? most PCs start level 1 with 4 to 6 perception and by level 5 have at least 10 making anything up to dc20 a take 10 option (at least 50% on the dice roll) one would think DCs would be a LITTLE tougher.
as for the rest good points krome. I think i will use some of that.
I always wonder why DCs are so low.
caltrops, small and difficult to see = DC10? most PCs start level 1 with 4 to 6 perception and by level 5 have at least 10 making anything up to dc20 a take 10 option (at least 50% on the dice roll) one would think DCs would be a LITTLE tougher.
as for the rest good points krome. I think i will use some of that.
You can't take 10 in combat. Taking 10 essentially means, if I roll a dice 10 times, I'm very likely to get at least a 10 somewhere. Taking 20, is rolling the dice 20 times, and I should get a 20. Taking 10 takes a minute, while taking 20 takes 2 minutes.
Some creatures can always opt to take 10 on certain skills, but not others. As far as I know, no creature has the option to take 10 on Perception in combat.
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You can't take 10 in combat.
Correct, unless you have some ability that allows you to do so.
Taking 10 essentially means, if I roll a dice 10 times, I'm very likely to get at least a 10 somewhere. [...] Taking 10 takes a minute
Incorrect. Taking 10 takes as long as a single skill check takes, however long that would be. Think of it as rolling the d20 once and it automatically comes up as a 10.
Taking 10 rules
yea... but that doesnt matter when many players will have a +10 to perception by level 5 or 6.