Let's say you have two level one npcs one specializes in using color spray, the other a rogue that likes to use a sap, this pairing could be pretty deadly but two level 1 creatures makes a cr 2and right?
Now what about using a shocker lizard, one shocker lizard is a cr 22and and can zap someone for 1d8 non-lethal but throw 2 of them together and all of a sudden they can zap everyone for 4d8 lethal damage is this a cr 4?
How about a vrock, one can dance and deal 5d8 with a simi low save. But 2 or more can work with others to deal 5d8 each up to 20d8 what's the cr for 4 vrocks going by above math it would be a 36....
How do you figure cr with multiple creatures?
Number of Creatures ........ Equal to…
1 Creature ........ CR
2 Creatures ........ CR +2
3 Creatures ........ CR +3
4 Creatures ........ CR +4
6 Creatures ........ CR +5
8 Creatures ........ CR +6
12 Creatures ........ CR +7
16 Creatures ........ CR +8
I find this formula breaks after about 6 creatures. If your throwing monsters 6 or more CRs below the APL, chances are they won't be able to scratch the party. Heck, sometimes 4 CRs below can't touch the party.
I think 3.5 stopped awarding XP for monsters 7 CRs below.
The easy way, which can even handle combining monsters of different CRs:
Total up the XP value of the creatures. Look up the XP value on Table: Experience Point Awards. Tada, the CR of the encounter.
Obviously, CR is imprecise, at some point a horde of the weak may not be worth the full CR value, and some combinations may actually synergize past what the formula gives.
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I find this formula breaks after about 6 creatures. If your throwing monsters 6 or more CRs below the APL, chances are they won't be able to scratch the party. Heck, sometimes 4 CRs below can't touch the party.
I think 3.5 stopped awarding XP for monsters 7 CRs below.
Depends how you do it. 16 Goblin warrior 1s is a CR 8, and by giving each of them a few flasks of alchemist's fire and full knowledge of the Aid Another manoeuvre, I would expect to take up some resources of a level 8 party. Touch AC is a pretty easy hit, and 16 flasks will do quite a bit of fire damage.
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Depends how you do it. 16 Goblin warrior 1s is a CR 8, and by giving each of them a few flasks of alchemist's fire and full knowledge of the Aid Another manoeuvre, I would expect to take up some resources of a level 8 party. Touch AC is a pretty easy hit, and 16 flasks will do quite a bit of fire damage.I find this formula breaks after about 6 creatures. If your throwing monsters 6 or more CRs below the APL, chances are they won't be able to scratch the party. Heck, sometimes 4 CRs below can't touch the party.
I think 3.5 stopped awarding XP for monsters 7 CRs below.
Actually...3 Goblin Warriors 1 equal a CR1 encounter. So, 16 of them are actually about CR 5.67. I'd bump that up to CR 6 with the alchemist's fire.
The formula multiplying the number of creatures by their individual XP value and then adding all those totals together is the simplest and most accurate way to determine CR in PFRPG. Using the above example of 16 goblin warriors 1, you get 135XP*16=2160XP, right between CR 5 and CR 6. With fractional CR creatures, you have to add enough of them to bring the CR to 1 THEN use the table 12-3 IN MULTIPLES OF THAT NUMBER. To get a CR 8 encounter with Goblin Warriors 1, you'd need 35-36. The better way to do it would be go for a CR 9 encounter with 48 Goblins (3=CR1, and in this case, 3 gobos=1 creature, ergo, 48 Goblins=CR9. Also, 6400/135=47.4...(That's 6400XP for a CR9 encounter, divided by 135XP per individual Goblin...the maths work out almost perfectly every time.)
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@Mergy...if you build encounters as you indicated with the 16 Gobos, you'll end up giving your party WAY too many XP. Also, if you're dropping 48 Goblin warriors 1 on a party of 4 7-10th level PCs, even with alchemist's fire, the party doesn't deserve 1200XP each for it. The ONLY thing the Gobs will hit with is the alchemist's fire...and miss every single melee and ranged attack otherwise. The fighter types in the group will kill a goblin with every attack roll of 5+. So you're just wasting everyone's time with that encounter...
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@Mergy...if you build encounters as you indicated with the 16 Gobos, you'll end up giving your party WAY too many XP. Also, if you're dropping 48 Goblin warriors 1 on a party of 4 7-10th level PCs, even with alchemist's fire, the party doesn't deserve 1200XP each for it. The ONLY thing the Gobs will hit with is the alchemist's fire...and miss every single melee and ranged attack otherwise. The fighter types in the group will kill a goblin with every attack roll of 5+. So you're just wasting everyone's time with that encounter...
So I messed up, and you're right, sixteen of them is only a CR 6 at best. Recall however that a CR equal encounter is only meant to take up one quarter of the party's resources for the day.
If I have sixteen of these suckers all using several flasks of acid or alchemist's fire, it will be a slugfest. There will be so much fire being thrown around, and because CR assumes the creature is in an ideal spot, we'll likely have some hidey holes for goblins to pop in and out of, or cover to take. Nevermind that a goblin warrior 1 has Stealth +10 (so DC 22 to spot a concealed goblin from 20 feet away), so we have some superb ambush potential.
Wasting people's time? Hah, terrorizing PCs with splash damage and touch attacks is always fun, and your PCs will have lots of little mongrels to slaughter as revenge.