Evil Kingmaker...I don't think this has come up before.

[Darksmokepuncher]

Hi,

So I am running an evil Kingmaker campaign, so far the characters are lvl 2, but I can see some potential trouble coming.

These characters are willing to PLAY the good guys
They are GREAT at talking their way out of situations they can't simply beat
The strategize well together.

How do I keep this game challenging and fun without stifling their creativity?

If you need more info, please ask and I will explain.

[The Fox]

What trouble do you see brewing? None of the antagonists are going to care what alignment the PCs are.

Spoiler:

in particular, the king of Pitax will double-cross the PCs if they have some sort of alliance with them. This is HIS nature (alignment).

[Cheapy]

I can't imagine Restov would be too happy about funding an evil city.

[Darksmokepuncher]

I see common PC enemies: Kobolds, evil fey, etc. being coerced or bribed into JOINING the kingdom rather than harrying it.

I see your point Cheapy, but if Restov does get involved like they are probably wont to do, it ends the campaign, because by that time, 5-6th level?, the PCs could not hope to beat Restov.

[Old Drake]

I can imagine Restov being happy to fund an evil city. I however couldn't see them happy funding a chaotic city; you never know what those kind of people would do.

And lets be realistic here, if the PC are psychotic, they'd never manage to get together a city, let alone a kingdom. But realistic evil groups? Isn't evil the alignment of politicians anyway?

[thenovalord]

the alignments are all over the place in KM

Brevoy is filled with chaos
one of the main gods is chaos
one of the main gods is LG
you are sent forth to explore, exploit, expand and exterminate
many baddies are chaos
many allies are chaos

go forth in the name of power,
bring to heel those who would help you,
destroy those who will not
make alliances when it is expedient to do so

with great power, comes great opportunity to abuse that power

enjoy!!

[The Fox]

Darksmokepuncher wrote:

I see common PC enemies: Kobolds, evil fey, etc. being coerced or bribed into JOINING the kingdom rather than harrying it.

First, it would be an incredibly bad idea to bring evil fey into a kingdom you rule over. Evil fey are going to be a problem no matter the ruler's alignment. If most of the citizens are also evil then good fey are going to be a problem.

Kobolds are not a threat for 4th level characters, so that point is moot. If you threw orcs or gnolls or something else at them, those monsters don't care what alignment you are. You aren't going to be able to bribe them. Or at least they won't hold up their end of the deal for long. Evil dragons will only agree to terms of peace as long as your usefulness exceeds your tastiness.

Other threats for your evil kingdom now also include paladins and clerics dedicated to cleansing the region of all evil. Or angels and other celestials.

In summary, all of the typical evil forces are still a threat, and now so are many good forces as well.

[wanderer82]

The evil fey don't want a Human Kingdom in their lands - they all serve Narissa, so they want the humans dead. The evil fey might 'ally' with your PCs simply to build connections to better ruin the fledgling nation more effectively by turning it on itself. Remember, your players only control their individual characters. You, on the other hand, have a world at your disposal. Just because your PCs want something to happen does not make it so. And evil begets evil.

[Waiwode]

I would hate to guess the percentage of Good campaigns that allied with the Kobolds. Because via anecdotal evidence here on the forums, it's high.

[Disciple of Sakura]

Waiwode wrote:

I would hate to guess the percentage of Good campaigns that allied with the Kobolds. Because via anecdotal evidence here on the forums, it's high.

I know it happened in mine. The hex containing the kobolds remains unclaimed, as it is a "reservation" sort of thing for them. They assimilated the lizardfolk and centaurs as well.

[Melissa Litwin]

Kingmaker is a great place for an evil party. Restov wouldn't care about funding an evil kingdom, as long as it took care of the bandit problem. They chartered several groups to set up cities/kingdoms in the area and probably didn't check alignments.

Spoiler:

The story arc doesn't change much no matter the PCs' alignment. You haven't gotten to the Vanishing of Varnhold yet, but greed and curiosity and self-preservation serve to draw the PCs there just as well as a desire to help. Everything else is pretty much dealing with threats to a kingdom that don't care about alignment at all.

[The Fox]

Melissa Litwin wrote:

Kingmaker is a great place for an evil party. Restov wouldn't care about funding an evil kingdom, as long as it took care of the bandit problem. They chartered several groups to set up cities/kingdoms in the area and probably didn't check alignments.

** spoiler omitted **

This. (In the spoiler)

[Orthos]

Waiwode wrote:

I would hate to guess the percentage of Good campaigns that allied with the Kobolds. Because via anecdotal evidence here on the forums, it's high.

Helps that in my setting Kobolds aren't automatically evil, so the only bad guy in the dungeon was ol' T, the rest just wanted to get on with their lives and win the war with the mites.

But then again, my group has no good characters either, so take that for what it's worth heh. They lean more CN.

[Bobson]

Darksmokepuncher wrote:

I see common PC enemies: Kobolds, evil fey, etc. being coerced or bribed into JOINING the kingdom rather than harrying it.

I see your point Cheapy, but if Restov does get involved like they are probably wont to do, it ends the campaign, because by that time, 5-6th level?, the PCs could not hope to beat Restov.

If you're playing by the book, then the PCs don't know that they're going to be the ones founding a kingdom until book 2, after they've dealt with the kobolds, the mites, and so on. So they'd have no future incentive to allying with them. That being said, even if they negotiated with each group, the mites and kobolds are still going to want to fight each other, and probably will refuse to join the kingdom if the other side has signed up.

As others have pointed out: Just because someone is evil doesn't mean they're going to want to go along with the evil PC's and their plans.