Help a witch's slumber is causing real problems at my table


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SU's for monster are normally done with knowledge checks when you are trying to figure out how to fight the monsters.

SU's for casters are in GM Fiat category. Some GM's assume all class abilities are well known, and others do not.

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsebo)

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Having taken only one basic first aid class, the first thing they tell you to do when your friend drops unconscious because a lady in a weird hat looked at him funny is to try to rouse him and ask if he's okay. That sounds a lot like a standard action to me. It doesn't need to get more complicated than that, rules-wise. Goblins are as smart as humans, so they would know that spellcasters can put their friends to sleep (10 int), and that you would check to make sure they're not dead (10 wis).


wait... please clarify the argument

are your players asking "where in the rules does it say that the victem just stand there and look otherwise normal except that it does not take actions"

or are they asking "how does any one else know that the target is SLEEPING as opposed to dead or otherwise prone and lifeless looking"

if the question is the former your players are trying to troll you. the rules do not have to specify that the victim changes into night clothes, grabs a pillow and lays down in order to express that they pass out and fall to the ground sleeping.

if the question is the latter then they have a valid point that can only be answered by you. Do you think that particular goblin is a snorer? do you think that an ally can tell at a glance that the target is breathing, scratching his but or otherwise seems to be sleeping despite the battle raging all around him? do you think the target simply drops flat on his face as a result of the spell or does the target essentially take a moment to carefully lay down and curl up with his head resting comfortably on his arms?

those are not covered in rules and should be a simple fiat.

maybe the other goblins have a reason to know the target is sleeping, maybe they must make a perception or heal check to determine death vs sleep. or maybe they run in fear of the witches ability to suck the life out of fellow goblins without even the benefit of the usual magical light show.


Really I guess if some strange ppl came by and suddenly one of my pals fell down (unconcioud, dead or sleeping) I'd just bash those guys really hard and check my pal later, when those strange guys can't do the same to me any more.

More so in an enviroment where I'd have to act on the assumption that someone wants to kill me.

Dark Archive

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Oddly enough, I've heard this argument before. How do you tell if an enemy (or ally) falls over asleep or unconscious? One will draw his companions over to waste a round shaking him awake; the other doesn't.

The answer my old group came up with is it's in the way he falls down. Otherwise known as "head bounce or not."

Someone that truly goes unconscious (prismatic spray, etc) is knocked off their feet and their head will (usually) bounce off the ground... usually hard. It's pretty obvious (and jarring) for anyone that has seen this happen in real life.

Someone that's affected by sleep, is more going to lay themselves on the ground. If they went limp and smacked their head off the ground hard, they'd wake themselves up after all. You may have even seen it happen to classmates in a real boring class after. Head drops down, smacks off desk and they wake up. So for a slumbering character to remain asleep, they (involuntarily) take a free action to go prone laying themselves on the ground. The "no head bounce" if you will.

Typically someone that gets suddenly tired will go down and hit their knees first or try to catch themselves with their hands as they go down. Someone knocks unconscious won’t do that and will just collapse straight down. Those are some more indicators you can use that might not be spelled out in the rules but are utilizing some common sense.

That's just the way we've explained it. Shrug.


Heal check.

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