Massive rules inconsistency on trip weapons


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I recently discovered an inconsistency between the FAQ, an official article and an entry in the magic weapons page:

From Official Article on Combat maneuvers and weapons:

Article:
Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon (natural weapons and unarmed strikes are considered weapons for this purpose) to perform the maneuver, and therefore the weapon’s bonuses (enhancement bonuses, feats such as Weapon Focus, fighter weapon training, and so on) apply to the roll.

From Official FAQ

FAQ:
Trip Weapons: If you want to make a trip combat maneuver, do you have to use a weapon with the trip special feature?

No. When making a trip combat maneuver, you don't have to use a weapon with the trip special feature--you can use any weapon. For example, you can trip with a longsword or an unarmed strike, even though those weapons don't have the trip special feature.
Note that there is an advantage to using a weapon with the trip special feature (a.k.a. a "trip weapon") when making a trip combat maneuver: if your trip attack fails by 10 or more, you can drop the trip weapon instead of being knocked prone.

On a related note, you don't have to use a weapon with the disarm special feature (a.k.a. a "disarm weapon") when making a disarm combat maneuver--you can use any weapon.

Note: This is a revision of this FAQ entry based on a Paizo blog about combat maneuvers with weapons. The previous version of this FAQ stated that using a trip weapon was the only way you could apply weapon enhancement bonuses, Weapon Focus bonuses, and other such bonuses to the trip combat maneuver roll. The clarification in that blog means any weapon used to trip applies these bonuses when making a trip combat maneuver, so this FAQ was updated to omit the "only trip weapons let you apply these bonuses" limitation.

And out of nowhere came this entry in the weapons page

weapons:
If you want to make a trip combat maneuver, do you have to use a weapon with the trip special feature?
No. Note that when making a trip combat maneuver, you don't need to use a weapon at all--for example, you can trip when you're unarmed, even though unarmed strike isn't listed as a trip weapon.
There are advantages to using a weapon with the trip special feature (a.k.a. a "trip weapon") when making a trip combat maneuver.
One, if your trip attack fails by 10 or more, you can drop the trip weapon instead of being knocked prone.
Two, you can apply the weapon's enhancement bonus, weapon-specific attack bonuses such as Weapon Focus, and so on to your trip combat maneuver roll.
For example, you'd add the enhancement bonus from a +5 whip to your trip combat maneuver roll because a whip is a trip weapon. You wouldn't add the enhancement bonus from a +5 longsword to your trip combat maneuver roll because a longsword is not a trip weapon. In effect, there's no difference between making an unarmed trip attempt and a trip attempt with a +5 longsword because the sword doesn't help you make the trip attempt.

Now 1 & 2 agree eye to eye, whereas entry 3 claims to originate from the FAQ, but in reality it is completely opposite to it regarding the attack bonuses without a trip weapon! Anyone else noticed that?


Your third quote is from the PF SRD which is a 3rd party site that can be inaccurate. They strive for accuracy but do not always maintain it. I would report the inaccuracy to them and let them update their site. - Gauss

Liberty's Edge

That last quote is from a FAQ that was later overruled due to not quite making sense in relation to other rules and rulings.

EDIT: There was a blog post about it at some point.

EDIT2: Actually, your first link IS that blog post.

Liberty's Edge

It is awesome and useful but but D20 PFSRD isn't an official source source for the rules nor it is maintained by Paizo. If it behind the FAQ in updating its pages you should contact the PFSRD site administrators.


What you quoted from the PFSRD is actually the "previous version of this FAQ" entry that's mentioned in the FAQ. Guess it's not been updated.

And as it's been said it's a 3rd party site, that's usually very accurate and better structured than the official PRD, but sometimes something like this slips through the cracks.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

So has anyone alerted d20pfsrd.com to this yet?

The Exchange

Fixing.

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