ok bye...? however, you might want to reserve ultimate judgement until some code actually hits the road... otherwise, happy gaming.
This is not a ragequit. I'm just expressing my recent and growing disappointment.
I am still holding out some hope that this might be something I could enjoy. But as I said, that window is narrowing.
@Decius: I would prefer in a game that makes so many abstractions that the stuff that really should be hands-on is not arbitrarily relegated to invisible people.
Goblin Squad Member
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@Decius: I would prefer in a game that makes so many abstractions that the stuff that really should be hands-on is not arbitrarily relegated to invisible people.
We don't know to what extent things will be hands on yet. All we know is we have NPCs at our disposal who we can make work more efficiently while we are online via mini-games.
For all we know one of the blacksmithing mini-games could resemble this.
Something I would consider WAY more hands on then pumping out an item each time the bar fills.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Yeah, I don't think player network latency, timing or cheating ability needs to be tied to production speed or quality. I'd actually rather see a complex system which can improve speed or quality of production at a significant cost. I don't know what the cost should be measured in, but coin is probably the wrong thing to use to adjust cost. Time/quality/materials might be good (you can put out low-quality stuff really, really fast if you are willing to accept some wasted material, or you can produce that same low-quality stuff slowly, saving every bit of scrap, or carefully use only the very best of your materials to produce superior products.
If production time tops out at a reasonable time to sit through doing nothing else, production time is basically removed as a variable. If the product of unit materials usage and production time increases linearly as quality increases logarithmically, then there are meaningful tradeoffs and strategic decisions to be made, not just hitting a button and watching a movie.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah, I don't think player network latency, timing or cheating ability needs to be tied to production speed or quality. I'd actually rather see a complex system which can improve speed or quality of production at a significant cost. I don't know what the cost should be measured in, but coin is probably the wrong thing to use to adjust cost. Time/quality/materials might be good (you can put out low-quality stuff really, really fast if you are willing to accept some wasted material, or you can produce that same low-quality stuff slowly, saving every bit of scrap, or carefully use only the very best of your materials to produce superior products.
If production time tops out at a reasonable time to sit through doing nothing else, production time is basically removed as a variable. If the product of unit materials usage and production time increases linearly as quality increases logarithmically, then there are meaningful tradeoffs and strategic decisions to be made, not just hitting a button and watching a movie.
True... I'm sure the Fable II system would result in some kind of smithing bot. I would like to see something more involved that just some material cost though. Some people are going to want to take an active part in their crafting. The mini-games that have actually been referenced in the blog would logically be where that comes in.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't know what the cost should be measured in, but coin is probably the wrong thing to use to adjust cost.
I'm curious why you think coin isn't a good fit here. After all, this will be a virtual economy, where coin actually has value.
You went on to say that materials might be part of the equation, but isn't that ultimately the same as coin?
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I don't know what the cost should be measured in, but coin is probably the wrong thing to use to adjust cost.I'm curious why you think coin isn't a good fit here. After all, this will be a virtual economy, where coin actually has value.
You went on to say that materials might be part of the equation, but isn't that ultimately the same as coin?
The four resources I see as relevant are coin, materials, time, and player labor. Player labor and time create coin and materials; time is created at a constant rate, while labor is produced directly by the players. (The intermediate gameplay steps don't factor into the economics)
The market price of the best equipment will fall somewhere between the cost and the expected utility value. Assuming equipment is typically sold for coin, if the added cost can be easily reduced to coin, then it becomes trivial to optimize the math, which results in less diversity in production. If the added cost is in a scarce resource other coin, such as material, then the value of that time or material becomes a factor- and the price of the material will reflect the demand for it. A higher demand for equipment creates a higher price for materials, which encourages more people to create materials, which supplies more people with equipment.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Decius, I think I get you now.
In software engineering (and probably most engineering), there's a motto: "Good, Fast, Cheap - Pick Any Two". I would think this should apply to Processing and Crafting as well.
Coin should increase Speed.
Time & Materials should increase Quality.
Player Labor is really a wildcard that could increase either.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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NPC Wages are proportionally related to Production Time?
Surely if wages and work speed are related, more total wages should be paid on a fast project (all other things being equal).
That would make wage/time proportional to some power >1 of production/time, or exponentially related to work speed, or something. At the very least, if we choose to call in overtime shifts, we shouldn't get a discount on total cost.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If coin increases speed, and coin is the primary form of exchange, then there would almost certainly be no economic advantage in doing so. The cost of production would raise the cost of goods, and unless you had a direct buyer, most people would rather wait for a better price.
Tying materials to speed/quality of production would mean that the market rates of those materials would be regulated by the asking price of end consumers, and thereby the crafters who make finished products.
Then maybe all crafters/processors should have the option of a "Waste" slider. Making the process faster uses up more materials, where as slowing it down can reduce the amount of materials consumed. It wouldn't be a huge change in the required materials or the time needed to produce a good, but it would give crafters/processors some flexibility in handling production depending on the amount of material they have access to at any given moment.
Since PFO time is 4:1, a 2-hour "dig" is a "day" of 8 hours. How much ore / other pre-processing material can be gathered then becomes a matter of (a) the size of the labor pool [# of commoners], (b) the quality of the labor pool [+/- from chow, drink & wage scale], and (c) the skill of management [player character].
I would suggest that the "node" (or whatever it ends up being called) be based around that day of labor.
I agree with an above posting that a player should be able to do this stuff solo, swinging the pick/basket/skinning/trapping/whatever to gather pre-processed material.
Granted, there is a practical limit that is pretty small on how much can be carried, even at a heavy encumbrance load which should keep the solo capacities small. Starting-out player gear should fall under the parameters of this frame of reference - stuff that can be made with the barest of relevant skills, certainly better than the "Generic Club" every one starts with at generation.
Now, having said that, solo crafting should be possible at every level. It might take you a long time to do things this way, but it will certainly suit the mindset. I rather think that Sauron of LOTR likely fashioned his many Rings of Power, culminating in the One Ring, all on his own accord. Only one can keep a secret and all that ... I don't *know* that he did, but it fits what I do know.
Processing should be staffed by Experts, not Commoners but otherwise close to the same as Commoners factoring the same abc factors used for Commoners.
Final-stage crafting I would think would be handled by the crafters themselves, especially at first. Later on apprentices can handle the grunt work. Blacksmiths, as an example, routinely have apprentices making the day to day tools of the trade that the general populace consumes in the form of nails, horseshoes, cookware/hardware, barrel bands, the iron parts used by wainwrights, carpenters, shipwrights, ad nauseam. These apprentices pay for themselves and the basic expenses of the smithy. Apprentices approaching journeyman skill are also assigned the basic weaponry and armor items such as arrow and bolt heads, bullets (sling and gun), the ironwork required for piece armor components such as studded leather, spearheads, pole weapon reinforcing bands and butt caps and so on. They smelt ore into useable metal under the supervision of journeymen or the master smith.
More complex smithwork are handled by higher-skilled journeymen, typically tasked with (for example) mail links, more complex weapon components such as axe and hammer heads, flails, maces and more. Even such pieces as arm guards/bracers, greaves and perhaps helmets could fall under the purview of journeymen.
Master smiths - those who have completed their apprenticeship - could have the necessary skill for all manner of ironwork, from smelting ore into various useable bars, alloying iron with extra carbon to produce steel and the basic processes of crafting all manner of iron/steel armor and weapon pieces.
This level of blacksmithing could correspond to anything from as simple as Blacksmithing 4 to a much more advanced and "tree based" series of skills knowledge. Perhaps the merit badge at this juncture is crafting a "knight's suit" of half plate, dirk, broad sword/long sword, horseman's weapon, heater or other suitable shield [although shield crafting could fall under a different skills set], two score bolt heads and a "fist" of 5 lance heads. Note that this does not "eat" the set of goodies made, merely acts as the "proof" to complete the Blacksmith merit badge. Perhaps one can set the assembly up on a display rack in the cottage/smith shop that the merit badge permits them to establish in town, sell it on the market or even simply fork it over to a player buddy.
Advanced blacksmithing techniques could include such "exotica" as Damascus steel, folded steel and alloying unusual metals with the "norm" of iron and steel. Others could include learning how to work "cold wrought iron" and even more unusual ores/metals such as meteoric iron, mithril/mithral and the seven "star metals" (adamantine, Oerthblood). Related merit badges would presumably revolve around a "proofing" of crafting with the material in question.
Any of this sound close to what's being discussed, or ?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ready for an unpopular idea? I hope these commoners who help us in whatever manner become more efficient/powerful over time. I hope they are more than just Worker #1 and Guard #1. They should be given random names based upon their race and even if they do not stay spawned, they should stay in our charter's pool of resources; based of course on whether the charter "earns" them by building a good town/paying good wages, etc.
The point is, these NPCs should grow based on what they are applied doing and if killed or lost through neglect, should be replaced with a new unskilled unit. Therefore, it is in the best interests of competing charters to occasionally raid stronger charters to keep their NPC strength down. This strength can manifest as combat strength in NPC guards, harvesting efficiency, or even crafting ability (this of course is speculation based on this blog).
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Ready for an unpopular idea? I hope these commoners who help us in whatever manner become more efficient/powerful over time. I hope they are more than just Worker #1 and Guard #1. They should be given random names based upon their race and even if they do not stay spawned, they should stay in our charter's pool of resources; based of course on whether the charter "earns" them by building a good town/paying good wages, etc.
The point is, these NPCs should grow based on what they are applied doing and if killed or lost through neglect, should be replaced with a new unskilled unit. Therefore, it is in the best interests of competing charters to occasionally raid stronger charters to keep their NPC strength down. This strength can manifest as combat strength in NPC guards, harvesting efficiency, or even crafting ability (this of course is speculation based on this blog).
I like that suggestion. Gives one RP reasons to seek weregild and other stuff from other players that whack-a-mole on your mini-onions. These aspect of play, compared to "default" (real time skill training) warrant the NPC being tracked by what they do in-game. It might take such an NPC 5 or 10 years (instead of 2 1/2 years) to hit "cap", but it would sure be a wonderful facet of game play.
"Lenny here, he's been with me since the beginning, when the land comprised a mere ~100 miles square. Nowadays there's 10,000 miles square, yet good ol' Lenny has been with me since those dark days. I'm gonna be a mite upset with someone if'n they go and whack my good buddy Lenny. Might have to talk with those fellas down at Tony's Bakery. Might affect my aim when they ask me to help 'em out a few months down the road when they've forgotten about whacking Lenny. Might have to dust off that box of special items I keep under lock and key. Might even have to go and find some old friends, see what they're up to these days in Timbuktu."
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Goblin Squad Member
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If coin increases speed, and coin is the primary form of exchange, then there would almost certainly be no economic advantage in doing so. The cost of production would raise the cost of goods, and unless you had a direct buyer, most people would rather wait for a better price.
Consider building Siege Equipment, or counter-Siege Equipment. Suddenly, speed is a lot more important than price. I would imagine there will be a number of other valid examples.
I really like your idea of modeling Waste. The way I see it, you would have to spend more Coin in order to reduce the Waste factor, and be able to complete your project with fewer required Materials. Or you could just throw more Materials at the project, and deal with the fact that your common folk aren't measuring very accurately, or maybe they're even taking home a few two-by-fours for their personal use.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Everything produces some kind of waste, and it's up to the builder to determine how to process the waste, and sometimes the waste processing isn't cheap.
Waste would be a resource drain, and the more skilled you are at the craft the lesser the sink. This can either be modeled by excess resources at the end, or a smaller resource cost.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Nihimon, that's true, speed will matter in certain instances. I wonder though if skills/merit-badges and materials would be a better system to handle speed than directly injecting currency into a project.
To me, tying everything to materials just makes the economy that much more interconnected. I may be mistaken, but I see that as a good thing.
@Valkenr, Waste as a resource drain was the idea, but putting the method of managing that waste in the hands of the players sounds interesting.
@Forencith, you're crazy, keep going.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Skwiziks, it will probably depend mostly on whether or not GW feels like they need the money-sink effects of letting processors/crafters spend coin to increase speed.
Ultimately, though, it just seems like a better model. You pay your workers well, and they tend to work harder, or you get more skilled workers who can do more with less.
Spending coin to increase speed and/or reduce waste just feels right, to me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that if the workers are taken care of in the long-term and receive good wages, then their morale and efficiency slowly improve. Good long term wages/support/protection would also mean that you just have more workers available, because you're drawing them in.
Short-term high wages may boost work in one or more of a settlement shops, but it is likely either pulling laborers out of less lucrative jobs in the settlement, or pulling in laborers from outside. Either way, your labor pool might go up, morale might go up, but efficiency might go down with the influx of new hands.
There will be *lots* of room for money in expediting jobs - a lot will be spent to pull in resources from across the map.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As much as I would love an NPC minigame (aka the sims), using this to raise the efficiency of the camp could cause an already beginner unfriendly game to be even more beginner unfriendly.
I find it likely that coin will be the only thing apart from skill points which influences how effective your camp is.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Nostrus, I like that Company idea.
While you're getting started, consider opening up Diplomatic channels with The Seventh Veil.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would like the part of the experience of the PnP game, where the group is exploring a cave, we see some odd crystals, I make a Knowledge roll and know that they'd be useful as a crafting material, and I take a small sack full and we continue on our way. Back in town I'll see about either selling those or using them to craft something myself.
Having to set up a camp and hire commoners to do a bunch of stuff is fine for people wanting to focus on that during the game, but what if you're just a dabbler. I'd like to play an archer who makes his own bows, and occasionally sells them. And I'd like to be good at making and selling bows. I don't want to hire a group of commoners to go out and cut down trees so I can make the occasional bow. Or worse, so I can hire a group of commoners to make a single bow. I want to cut a single limb off a single tree and make a freakin' bow.
As long as I can Aragorn it up in this "beach" and harvest the odd patch of Athelas so I can make a healing poultice around the campfire in the evening for future use, I could care less what these massive guilds of harvesters, refiners, and crafters do. I love that you can focus on that in the game, and if that's the game you want to play, more power to you, but I've played a lot of DnD and Pathfinder characters that have taken ranks in Craft (Armor, Weapons, and once, Basketry). And not one of those characters was an Expert, they were all Rangers, Paladins, Fighters, Wizards, etc. They were first and foremost adventurers. Give me that experience in the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd like to play an archer who makes his own bows, and occasionally sells them.
This brings up something that I think could be very important.
I hope that it will be possible to specialize crafting so that martryn can be really good at making bows without having to get good at making tables and chairs and clubs and spears.
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Goblin Squad Member
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These dungeons may... be a source of unique resources needed for certain highly specialized crafting jobs.That's from the latest blog, so I'd say that's a pretty solid expectation :)
Excellent. All I want is to be able to craft without needing all the fuss of camps and storefronts or smiths or whatever. There should be a system in place to support the mom and pop crafters, not just the Wal-Mart crafters.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Have I read this wrong?
From my perusal of the blog, your role in crafting is purely managerial, and your character will never actually make something themselves - instead they'll oversee some NPCs who craft for you.
Well, there go my plans for being a legendary swordsmith (in the style of Kill Bill's Hanzo Hattori). I don't even get to say "this sword is made with the sweat of my brow. I tore the ore from the earth with these hands, drew forth the iron from the ore with these hands, and fashioned the blade with these hands. This is my sword." Instead, I say "I had some mooks mine, smelt and forge this sword for me. Yay."
Don't get me wrong, it's good that you're supporting the large-scale operations that merchant-types will want to run, but some support for people who actually want to be crafters might be nice too.
If we engage in the act of havesting, processing or crafting what skills will we be training in?
For instance if we find a suitable place to mine a rare ore, I take it we create a camp, defend it, and bing any necessary resources the commoners require. So what skills are we training in?
It doesn't sound like we'd be training in a mining (ore) skill. In fact I'm not sure we'd be training in any skill other than weapon skills (in defending the camp) and camp management.
Can some please clarify how the skill system will actually work?
Thanks
Raven
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Goblin Squad Member
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It doesn't sound like we'd be training in a mining (ore) skill. In fact I'm not sure we'd be training in any skill other than weapon skills (in defending the camp) and camp management.Can some please clarify how the skill system will actually work?
Thanks
Raven
The skill system is 100% irrelevent to the actions your character is doing. You set what skill you are training (assuming you are paying your account fee in order to have skill training time). Say you set it to train your harvesting skill, that harvesting skill will be going up over time whether you are running a dungeon, protecting a harvesting camp, or if you signed off. On the same note if you set it to train your spellcasting ability, the spellcasting skill will be going up regardless of what you are actually doing, or whether you are in game or not.
Now to actually reap the benefits of the skills you trained, you have to accomplish a quest of some kind for a merit badge, which could be anything from "harvest x amount of materials" to "travel to X location and talk to person Y" etc... depending on the skill, but the training over time portion, is simply time on what you chose to train.
take a look at the blog Skills are explained in the chapter "Your Pathfinder Online Character"
Now as far as the crafting/harvesting skills, I have no idea what they will be labeled, they could simply be labeled things like "manage ore opperation" or "Manage woodcutting" etc...
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Raven, so far the skills system has been described as analogous to EVE Online. You queue up skills to train, and a certain amount of real world time passes before you "level up" in that skill. Some important differences:
1.) Skill ranks have no direct effects.
As in EVE Online, your character can train in a wide variety of skills. However, unlike EVE, skills in Pathfinder Online have no direct effects. Each is simply a prerequisite for another area of character development.
2.) Merit Badges.
Most merit badges require that you first finish training a specific skill or skills. Some also require that you do something in-game, such as harvest a certain amount of resources, or slay a certain number of monsters, or explore a portion of the map. When you have completed the requirements, the merit badge is awarded, and you will likely also get a new ability associated with that merit badge.
3.) Merit Badges appear to be the source of abilities.
Abilities represent the class features and feats from the tabletop game, as well as a wider variety of development opportunities to support the wide range of character types for the MMO. As a character gains abilities, that character will become more competent and capable. Abilities give characters more variety in the types of armor they can wear, weapons they can use, items they can make, mounts they can ride, and spells they can cast. They also link to things like being sneaky, healing, finding traps, detecting tracks, finding resources that can be harvested, and buying and selling items at the in-game markets.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I hope you realize that the number of players out looking to gank a wagon will far outnumber the players willing to protect a wagon.
You're effectively limiting any serious harvesting to large guilds.
Yes, I think serious harvesting will be done by large groups. But there will always be solo prospectors looking for a wildcat strike.
Getting a wagonload of resources out of the wilderness and back to a civilized area will be a challenge. It would be useful therefore to think about becoming an effective teamster able to drive fast, move quietly, detect threats, and use cover and camouflage to hide.
Or hire someone who is.
Then I demand Donkeys!!!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Then I demand Donkeys!!!
And the Donkey Kong Game Engine post brings us all Full Circle.
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Finally got around to reading this, and I'm quite excited to start a band of thieves now that rob caravans. Genuine excitement!
I'm also very pleased to see a very strong focus on a player run economy, it works for Eve, and worked for SWG (pre NGE) quite well from my playtime in both games.
I can see myself wanting to run both a bandit, and a dedicated crafter tycoon.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Final items stats should be factored on material used, skill of crater and random luck. All people (or guild/factions) associated with the item should be included in the final product.
1) Patterns vs strict recipes. Eg, if i want to make chain mail with copper, its the same pattern as with iron, but different resources and skills to make it. If i making a short-sword i could use different metals for the blade, different metals/wood/leathers for the handle, all of which have an affect on the final product. This would allow for variation and customization of equipment.
2) All/Most crafting components should have a quality indication, be it letter grades or a percentile. Maybe the oaks that grow in the southern regions are on average better than their northern counterparts. This would affect the final product also.
3)When inspecting an item you would see 'Crafted by Jimmy'. Then you can expand to see 'Iron from billy', 'leather from Sally' and 'transported by Scotty'.
Not sure if I missed it or no one really asked, but will items lose durability(?) over time and usage? Because there was talk in other topics that economic system based on supply and demand will suffer hard if all swords +5 that were crafted during life of the game will mostly stay in the game(except of course selling them to NPC). And if items will lose HP then how it will be, will my sword brake little by little over time, or will it suffer damage with any hits I land? Also if such system will exist I would suggest that repairing of item should decrease it's maximum durability, so nothing will stay in the game forever.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Telenor - that level of detail hasn't been built into the design yet. I am pretty confident that some items will have some form of decay, some items will require some "rechargable bit", some items will have a chance of breaking, and some effects can decay, decharge, and/or break an item.
In short, there's going to be a lot of consumin' goin' on.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In short, there's going to be a lot of consumin' goin' on.
The balance between item consumption, food consumption, building decay/upkeep and items lost on death will be a critical parameter for the game.
-what will I do with my old gear when I get better: keep it, sell it or scrap it for materials? This depends on item consumption rates and the importance of crafter vs. materials.
-will the real power in the game belong to the best combatants (pvp or pve) or to the best organized crafting guilds? Will the top items be items that require specific boss loot vs items that require a range of high quality materials made by masters crafters (or just vast amounts of money) ?
-will there be real incentives to ship goods between settlements? If f.ex mountain settlements have good mines but very poor food production and plains settlement the opposite, there should be much trade between specialised settlements. If say npc morale (ie. work speed) increases when consuming multiple types of food grown in different terrain, there will be even more trade. Let the best food be perishable (icecream as the ultimate food?), and you have a logistics minigame many players might enjoy.
I would love to see player kingdoms and merchant guilds aiming to secure luxury goods from all over the map. The key to this is geographically dependent resources and finding the right consumption rates (too low and markets are flooded, too high and it becomes too much work, too much item decay and it turns into resource war, too much building decay and casual players cannot have houses).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Rust monsters will be a smiths best friend.
*shudder* I remember one adventure with some friends and he started to describe a creature that was in a hallway. I, as the player, had no idea what a rust monster looked like.
Needless to say, as soon as I walked under it, the DM announced I had lost all my armor and weapons.
*sadface*
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Goblin Squad Member
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what will I do with my old gear when I get better: keep it, sell it or scrap it for materials? This depends on item consumption rates and the importance of crafter vs. materials.[\QUOTE]
I would imagine the easiest thing would be to let the crafter have your old stuff. (I say this as a future crafter. heh) Other than that, yeah, selling it to a vendor for some cash would be the other option.
Unless of course, GW designs armor/weapon stands you can have inside your house for display purposes.
will the real power in the game belong to the best combatants (pvp or pve) or to the best organized crafting guilds? Will the top items be items that require specific boss loot vs items that require a range of high quality materials made by masters crafters (or just vast amounts of money)?[\QUOTE]
I would imagine the 'best' would be people who are a combination. Having all the best equipment is meaningless if you do not know how to use them.
will there be real incentives to ship goods between settlements? If f.ex mountain settlements have good mines but very poor food production and plains settlement the opposite, there should be much trade between specialised settlements. If say npc morale (ie. work speed) increases when consuming multiple types of food grown in different terrain, there will be even more trade. Let the best food be perishable (icecream as the ultimate food?), and you have a logistics minigame many players might enjoy.
I would love to see player kingdoms and merchant guilds aiming to secure luxury goods from all over the map. The key to this is geographically dependent resources and finding the right consumption rates (too low and markets are flooded, too high and it becomes too much work, too much item decay and it turns into resource war, too much building decay and casual players cannot have houses).
Of course there will be incentives. Your group will have them and others won't.
And yes, the rates of consumption/decay will take a bit to figure out.
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Goblin Squad Member
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-will the real power in the game belong to the best combatants (pvp or pve) or to the best organized crafting guilds?
My ideal is that the most powerful Kingdoms are those that have groups who specialize in combat (both PvE and PvP, and all the sub-flavors therein), harvesting, processing, and crafting, diplomacy, espionage, exploration, construction, and logistics.
My worst-case outcome is that a kingdom that just focuses on one part of the game design becomes able to overwhelm those which focus on the whole design space.
Will the top items be items that require specific boss loot vs items that require a range of high quality materials made by masters crafters (or just vast amounts of money) ?
The top items will require all of those things - boss loot, high quality materials, master craftspersons, and vast amounts of Coin.
-will there be real incentives to ship goods between settlements?
This one is easy to answer: Yes. Many items will require materials that will have to be shipped from outside the local area. The more complex a crafting job is, the more such materials will be required. Every area will produce some materials that have little value locally, but are extremely valuable elsewhere. That way every area will have reasons to trade with other areas.
RyanD
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Goblin Squad Member
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@illahad, I largely agree with you, and hope that PFO can find a happy medium.
Personally, I would love to see a system where normal items could be crafted even while I was offline, and certainly without much interaction from me. Masterwork items, though, would require a much more active presence, and provide the kind of challenge that a lot of pure crafters seek.