The rules:
1. No original posts please.
2. One quote per poster.
3. Stick with quotes from existing posts of the 'Creating magical item for the party + small fee on the work = players uprorar?' thread. Maybe once we get to 1500+ posts here we'll create a meta-meta thread.
My submission:
we haven't had any new ideas here since the high 900's.Hey, I'm partial to the math that I presented and that got promptly ignored in the 1200s!
PS working on that 2000+ job.
Are you sure it's not the same as QuantumSteve's calculation in the high 900s (link please?).
Also, you should know by now that sensible posts get ignored around here. You have to call someone out by name and make it really inflammatory. Even then they'll respond as though they hadn't read beyond the first two lines. Then your job is to respond with something that you've posted earlier in the thread. And so on until the internet explodes.
I'm having a reasonably good time reposting the same thing that Selgard keeps dodging, wondering how he'll dodge it next.
Also, Animal Farm.
I'm thinking of putting together a meta-thread called "What do you think are the ten best posts of the 'Creating magical item for the party + small fee on the work = players uprorar?' thread" thread. Of course probably eight of the top ten comments were posted by me.
edit: Also, Khmer Rouge! Selgard do you not hear my siren song?
edit^2: This has to be at least the twelfth or thirteenth shark this thread has jumped.
edit: Apologies to the mods in advance. Much love to you guys, hopefully you are enjoying the joke that is the out of control crafting thread as well.
edit^2: Brought to you by the guy that runs the Fantasy Fantasy Football league at work (in which you put together a team of your favorite Fantasy Football Managers and are scored on how well their fantasy teams do).
Fighter Friend - heya, Mr. Wizard, I needs me a +3 Bastard Sword. Can you make that for me?
Mr. Wizard - why sure, Fighter Friend, I'll get right on that. It's gonna cost you 11001gp. Is that okay?
Fighter Friend - hey now, Mr. Wizard, just you check yourself there. That Bastard Sword, if one were to be had in town, would cost 18335gp. I know for a fact that Marty's Magic Emporium will only buy items at half of their retail price. By my calculations, that's 9167.5gp. You're trying to rip me off Mr. Wizard! You're trying to gouge me for an extra 1833.5gp and I won't stand for it.
Mr. Wizard - well, okay Fighter Friend. I'm sorry you feel that way.
A few weeks later...
Fighter Friend - heya, Mr. Wizard, guess what?! Marty's Magic Emporium just got a +3 Bastard Sword in stock. I snapped it up Immediately!
Mr. Wizard - that's super Fighter Friend! Glad everything worked out for you.
----------
What Mr. Wizard isn't telling Fighter Friend is that he went ahead and made that sword anyway. And then, using Diplomacy, he sold it to Marty's Magic Emporium for material cost +10%. He successfully convinced Marty to give him more than half if the sword was sold in the first 7 days.
/ you're a mean one, Mr. Wizard.
I enjoy this one because I wrote it and it perfectly illustrates the Free Crafter Party line.
Voting for yourself is lame.
I present a random sampling of Ravingdork.
I think its a very valid analogy actually, if a somewhat violent one.
Lets make something nicer then:
Your character is down to 1 hp. The cleric has a heal spell.
The cleric tells you there are exactly three options: Stand there and heal naturally. Pay him 100 gold for a heal spell. or go into town and *hire* a cleric to cast it for FMV.Now assuming those are your actual options: Is he stealing from you?
Do you *really* *really* have those other two options?
Not really. He's stealing from you.If you are out in the desert dying of thirst and the guy beside you offers you half of his canteen for all of your earthly wealth- he is stealing from you. Because you have no reasonable choice.
"pay my 100g fee or go pay his 2000g fee" when its something /you should be doing anyway for free/ is theft because telling me my option is to pay 2000 instead of 100 isn't really an option. Its a false choice.
He can get away with it because he knows its a false choice. "ha ha I get your 100 gold because the other option is so outrageous that I can rip you off and you have to accept it and since you said yes it isn't theft!"
No. Its still theft. You are stealing from your group. And it ought not be tolerated.And I wouldn't tolerate it.
-S
Sorry, but it just doesn't add up. The crafter isn't holding a gun to your head like your proposed psycho cleric is.
Fighters and other characters manage to go about their adventuring lives perfectly fine without the crafter. Just because the spellcaster picks up a crafting feat doesn't change that, nor does it suddenly change his obligations (or lack there of) to the party. To think otherwise is sheer metagame greed on the part of the other players.
I'm just not getting it. If I charge 10% above crafting costs while making items for the other three characters in the party, it may work itself out to me having 30% more wealth than the norm.
However, everyone of them has 50% more wealth than the norm through my efforts.
Who's abusing who now?
I'm sure someone could come up with an opposing argument of equal credibility. In the end, it's all about perspective and play style, as I said earlier.
If you're a cleric than you MUST BE A HEALBOT. If you're not, than you're an extortionist or an asshat. If you are a spellcaster with item creation feats than you MUST BE THE PARTY CRAFTER. If not, you're a thief or a jerk.
F3ck that. If I'm either of those, it's because I choose to be. I'll not have anyone dictating MY character, not even the GM*
This thread is BEYOND twisted in its logic.
** spoiler omitted **
This thread has been locked. Please don't make threads like this and please take a look at the messageboard FAQ. Also, shoving this in Offtopic.