Nope... I was waiting to see how long it would take somebody to notice. 11 minutes—not too bad.Ahhhhhh good eye! I didn't catch that the first time I looked at the pic!I wonder if something similar was said at the Paizo offices just about now.
; )
Awesome looking huge mini, but this also means there is no longer a huge white dragon in the set. Sad news indeed.... luckily for me I own over 5000 ddm minis and have the old huge white dragon mini. But I assume it'll appear at some point.
No Huge White Dragon is slightly sad, but the statue looks like it should be cool even so :) I both can't wait for this, and wish I had a little more time to save up for a second case preorder :p
No Huge White Dragon is slightly sad, but the statue looks like it should be cool even so :) I both can't wait for this, and wish I had a little more time to save up for a second case preorder :p
On the bright side Erik did say the huge minis that got cut from this set will likely appear in the next huge set.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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So does that mean a huge case is
1 treachery demons, 1 kourzag statue, 2 lamias and 2 storm giants?
It's actually 2 Treachery Demons, 2 Storm Giants, 1 Lamia Harridan, and 1 Karzoug Statue.
I posted about this in this week's blog comment thread, but I think I'll recap the White Dragon situation here for those of you who aren't following that thread:
The news is out, and I'm afraid this is my biggest personal disappointment of the set so far. The Huge White Dragon, one of the very first miniatures I spoiled as being part of this set, has unfortunately been cut from the set by WizKids due to cost issues.
The White Dragon WILL appear in a future release, and I have reason to believe that may be sooner rather than later, but when WizKids told us we needed to cut from seven to four Huges, we had to make some grim sacrifices, and the Huge White Dragon was the most difficult of all.
Basically, we had to look at the sculpts we'd approved and decide which ones would work as part of future sets or independent releases, and which ones wouldn't. The White Dragon, obviously, isn't tied directly to the Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path in the same was as the Lamia Harridan or the Karzoug Statue, so we're holding it for later release.
I promise that the Karzoug Statue (really a Huge Stone Golem) is a _fantastic_ miniature both in terms of sculpt and paint job. It's not a dragon, but I think people will really like it, and it's definitely one of the key encounters of the entire Adventure Path.
So yeah, the bad news is that the Huge White Dragon will NOT be a part of the Rise of the Runelords set. But the sculpt looks amazing, and we WILL be releasing it soon in another format.
I'd hoped to preview the Karzoug Statue mini before the packaging went live on paizo.com, but in this case unfortunately we didn't have all our ducks in a row, so the news had to break in this fashion.
Given that, look forward to a MUCH closer look at the Karzoug Statue mini next week, and look for more details on the White Dragon in the weeks to come.
The dragon is not forgotten, and will make its way to you soon, I promise.
The only thing I disagree about is the size of the set. I'll always want more choice rather than less. H&M was too small, for my purposes, so I ended up with too many multiple figures....But the thing was, you got most of what was in the set at a reasonable price. Almost all the minis were highly reusable monsters that would hit the table a lot. Also, repeats didn't hurt since many of the monsters were things you'd fight in a group.
More individuals will buy bricks than cases for this new set. Which means they'll have to hit the secondary market or risk buying a second, third or fourth brick with a rising chance they're going to get repeat figures they don't want. If folks mostly go to the secondary market, expect to see single prices akin to the D&D large/huge dragons in a very short time.
I just dont see "being able to own every mini in the set for minimal price" as an important goal. My way of thinking (excluding huges and premiums for simplicity) is you could/can either:
1. Spend $275 on an H&M case and get around 84 minis (including 12 larges) selected from 40 different sculpts (and I agree with you that the repeat figures you did get were very well selected, although not perfectly, imo).
2. Spend $230 on two RoTRL bricks and get 64 minis (including 16 larges) selected from 60 different sculpts. No doubt you'll be extremely unlikely to get a complete set, but you'll probably get in the order of 40 unique figures (just like you did with H&M), with a comparable breakup of sizes (slightly more larges, slightly less smalls) and presumably a similar 'spread' of those minis you receive as repeats (ie you'll probably still get duplicates of the ones you need, not of karzoug).
The price per mini is roughly comparable, the overall price is roughly comparable (the difference being reasonably accounted for as being due to the different distributions of sizes, in my view). The fact that this second option will only give you a choice from 40 minis doesnt improve if they switch back to the H&M format - you were getting 84 minis from 40 scuplts then too.
Those people for whom approx. $250 is the limit are always going to get about 40 unique sculpts with the rest as (hopefully well selected) duplicates. The advantage of this set is for those of us who have a higher limit, plus for those who are going to pick up a single booster - remember that, with the forty mini sets, multi-mini boosters are not possible. There was a reasonable amount of grumbling about that at the time - that cohort of customers are served well by this 60 figure model (even though they're not going to be getting a bigger set - they at least dont have to worry about gambling on a single, blind mini).
I agree with you that this model is probably aimed more at stores than customers. Nonetheless, I dont really see who is losing out. What's the difference (in terms of minis you receive) between buying a case of H&M and two bricks of RoTRL? (Again, excluding premiums and huges - the only real difference I can see between the two models). You might be correct that the singles prices are going to skyrocket, but remember that, provided there are at least forty reasonably priced singles, you arent any worse off - even if the super-rare chase figures end up costing $40 or more. They just wouldnt exist the other way, so who cares? One benefit of this model is for those of us who buy multiple cases. My limit is around $1000 per set - so I got 3 H&M cases and will be getting 2 RoTRL cases. The greater number of sculpts is a huge benefit to me, plus I want to get a number of huge sculpts (and, although it hasnt been confirmed by anyone in the know, I'd be willing to bet that including huge sculpts becomes much more difficult in a set of only 40 with a similar pricing to H&M).
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It's actually 2 Treachery Demons, 2 Storm Giants, 1 Lamia Harridan, and 1 Karzoug Statue.
Excellent!
I am getting two complete cases with two friends and we will each get 1/3 a share two case bundles, now I know I will get the Huge minis I want, shame about the White Dragon but I am sure it will make a festive addition for the winter release.
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2 Treachery Demons, 2 Storm Giants, 1 Lamia Harridan, and 1 Karzoug Statue.
So the treachery demon is of lower "rarity" than the harridan or kourzag? It look far more complex and seems to have a more complex paint scheme, curious. Also how do those rarities fit with the adventure - wouldn't you need several lamia and only 1 treachery demon?
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Nope... I was waiting to see how long it would take somebody to notice. 11 minutes—not too bad.Ahhhhhh good eye! I didn't catch that the first time I looked at the pic!I wonder if something similar was said at the Paizo offices just about now.
; )
for some reason I am NOT seeing the preview for which you speak. I saw the Blog that Eric posted but it just features three figures and all medium. Where is the Statue at?
Can someone provide a link for me please?
Nope... I was waiting to see how long it would take somebody to notice. 11 minutes—not too bad.Ahhhhhh good eye! I didn't catch that the first time I looked at the pic!I wonder if something similar was said at the Paizo offices just about now.
; )
for some reason I am NOT seeing the preview for which you speak. I saw the Blog that Eric posted but it just features three figures and all medium. Where is the Statue at?
Can someone provide a link for me please?
It is a reference to the photo of the Karzoug Statue on the Huge Booster package, in the image above.
I love the minis, thanks y'all. I can't see why folks aren't happy about the price. You don't have to buy a case if you can't. They are basically the same deal as the first run, just buy what you can afford/need.
I'm not someone who has to own every single mini in the collection. I started my collection with the last run. I it bought from Paizo for two reasons: I really like what Paizo is putting out there; and I liked the look of theirs more than others. When I feel I have enough to run my games with I'll stop buying them. I understand some people are collectors, but I'm not. So, I don't really see it. I do like the minis and hopefully most people won't be discouraged from buying some because other people say they cost to much. Buy a booster, buy a case, or whatever but support a good company if you like them. Maybe next time Paizo will make all smaller cases, if that's what people want. I think this case is good for the AP though, and I don't think it was a mistake.
You don't see why people are unhappy they can't buy something they want?
I understand people are upset but even when I bought DDM by the case they were expensive, with a couple of years inflation and a smaller company producing the minis, and superior quality of minis (my opinion). I see the price as justified. If you can't afford the minis now then just save up and wait, nobody says you have to grab them at release.
And btw I don't think they're that expensive I'm still get 3 subscription cases and 3 promos.
Is that really the only thing you want you can't afford? I don't think so, you must be unhappy a lot(kidding). I don't know what to say to make it all better, just saying how I feel, like everyone else.
And I thank you, Sir. Now I go to bed. No gameday tomorrow, cancelled because of nice weather, BBQ instead. Hope we can do this again some time.
You don't see why people are unhappy they can't buy something they want?
That's perfectly understandable, it's just not solvable.
Where have I asked for a solution? I merely seek understanding.
Okay it might take some math but here goes. Lords of Madness DDM 12 packs in a case and about $200 per case as a huge set. Rise of the runelords for a case with subscription gives you 32 regular boosters and 6 huge boosters at $520. So basically 3 cases worth of Lords of Madness = $600..... Like I said not too upset by the price.
Where have I asked for a solution? I merely seek understanding.Okay it might take some math but here goes. Lords of Madness DDM 12 packs in a case and about $200 per case as a huge set. Rise of the runelords for a case with subscription gives you 32 regular boosters and 6 huge boosters at $520. So basically 3 cases worth of Lords of Madness = $600..... Like I said not too upset by the price.
Mind you I bought the DDM cases from my FLGS back then.
Mind you I bought the DDM cases from my FLGS back then.Where have I asked for a solution? I merely seek understanding.Okay it might take some math but here goes. Lords of Madness DDM 12 packs in a case and about $200 per case as a huge set. Rise of the runelords for a case with subscription gives you 32 regular boosters and 6 huge boosters at $520. So basically 3 cases worth of Lords of Madness = $600..... Like I said not too upset by the price.
I will also add after 4 cases of that set I still didn't have a complete set either.
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Yah was about to say gotta compare apples to apples on this one. I think I ordered my case of Lords of Madness for around $120 if I recall correctly. 3 cases end up being $360, which is quite a bit less than the best price I'm seeing online for the case bundle w/ big fat rune giant. Course, I'm rather pleased again with how on Heroes and Monsters I was able to get an entire set of the miniatures...that alone is a huge factor for me as well. I'll probably do the case this time around again, but I'm sort of hoping in the future it's more 40 miniature sets at the Heroes and Monster price point
Mind you I bought the DDM cases from my FLGS back then.Where have I asked for a solution? I merely seek understanding.Okay it might take some math but here goes. Lords of Madness DDM 12 packs in a case and about $200 per case as a huge set. Rise of the runelords for a case with subscription gives you 32 regular boosters and 6 huge boosters at $520. So basically 3 cases worth of Lords of Madness = $600..... Like I said not too upset by the price.
Yah was about to say gotta compare apples to apples on this one. I think I ordered my case of Lords of Madness for around $120 if I recall correctly. 3 cases end up being $360, which is quite a bit less than the best price I'm seeing online for the case bundle w/ big fat rune giant. Course, I'm rather pleased again with how on Heroes and Monsters I was able to get an entire set of the miniatures...that alone is a huge factor for me as well. I'll probably do the case this time around again, but I'm sort of hoping in the future it's more 40 miniature sets at the Heroes and Monster price point
Mind you I bought the DDM cases from my FLGS back then.Where have I asked for a solution? I merely seek understanding.Okay it might take some math but here goes. Lords of Madness DDM 12 packs in a case and about $200 per case as a huge set. Rise of the runelords for a case with subscription gives you 32 regular boosters and 6 huge boosters at $520. So basically 3 cases worth of Lords of Madness = $600..... Like I said not too upset by the price.
I should also add I'm Canadian, even with the strong dollar price disparity was still a big thing. But not so much with my credit card now and the fact I am not paying retail.
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As for 'saving up and waiting', I already planned on it. I did, after all, purchase a complete set of Heros and Monsters on Ebay for $120 a few weeks ago. I'm sure such an opportunity for this set will present itself eventually.
Tri, I don't plan on going that route but I am curious, how long and how often did you check eBay to find a complete set at that price. Nicely done, that's half the price I paid to complete my set.
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Tri, I don't plan on going that route but I am curious, how long and how often did you check eBay to find a complete set at that price. Nicely done, that's half the price I paid to complete my set.
Actually, I never bothered until this set was announced. Then, on a whim, I went and searched once, and stumbled upon the listing on the first try.
You don't see why people are unhappy they can't buy something they want?
Well I want a Bugatti Veyron, what's Paizo doing to fix that??
Nothing, obviously.
You realize people can be unhappy without expecting others to fix their problems, right?
So what you are saying is, I need to go to the Bugatti boards to complain. Gotcha.
Because to me, coming here and complaining like this about the price of a product is pretty much the same as me going on Bugatti's website and saying "Hey, what gives? I really wanted a new Veyron but they are too expensive! Yugo sells cars for under $10,000, why can't you guys?"
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So what you are saying is, I need to go to the Bugatti boards to complain. Gotcha.
Nope, just that we are arguing about human emotion, which is hardly rational.
Because to me, coming here and complaining like this about the price of a product is pretty much the same as me going on Bugatti's website and saying "Hey, what gives? I really wanted a new Veyron but they are too expensive! Yugo sells cars for under $10,000, why can't you guys?"
And if Critter responded on that website with the same answer, so would my answer be the same.
Yes, very Zen of you.
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Let me ask a question.
I believe a reason for the price of this set as a case is due to them packaged to be able to get a full set in 1 case.
They probably could have brought the price down to what some people want if they packaged these like DDM used to, no chance of a set per case.
I personally love being able to buy them all in one shot, would people rather have a lower price but no chance of a set per case?
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Lol come off it man, I know there's a lot of WOTC hate on these boards but I wouldn't say the quality was that bad on their miniatures. And yes surprise surprise if people feel something is expensive they'll say so. I'm a paizo fan but I've not drunk the koolaid.
And at a suggested retail price of nearly $700 is sorta assume a guarantee of a full set...though as I've said all along lotta us got em with heroes and monsters...
Nothing, obviously.
You realize people can be unhappy without expecting others to fix their problems, right?
So what you are saying is, I need to go to the Bugatti boards to complain. Gotcha.
Because to me, coming here and complaining like this about the price of a product is pretty much the same as me going on Bugatti's website and saying "Hey, what gives? I really wanted a new Veyron but they are too expensive! Yugo sells cars for under $10,000, why can't you guys?"
Let me ask a question.
I believe a reason for the price of this set as a case is due to them packaged to be able to get a full set in 1 case.
They probably could have brought the price down to what some people want if they packaged these like DDM used to, no chance of a set per case.
I personally love being able to buy them all in one shot, would people rather have a lower price but no chance of a set per case?
(Disclaimer: I intend none of this as a complaint, just a statement/comment.)
I think I would (but I'll take what I can get right now).
Using D&D Minis as a reference point, time was, on older sets during it's prime, I was probably spending close to this if I purchased 3 cases of minis.
The upsides of the old pricing/distribution was that expenditures could be spread out if needed/desired ($120 or $180 for a case, and then another case a week or two later).
There was also more of a "gambling" feel to opening cases, too. The current distribution takes a bit of that away. Good or bad, I dunno. A little of column A, a little of column B?
I'm curious, how much does the distribution add to the cost of the minis? If they went to a straight randomness, with smaller cases and no guarantee of distribution, would that lower the price point significantly*?
*Significantly, meaning, if they didn't worry about distribution, and packed the minis in, say, cases of 12 boosters, could I buy 3 cases of 12 for less than a case of 32 now?
I ask, because the only thing I could remotely call a "gripe" or complaint about the minis would be that, for the same cash outlay, I got a lot more minis back in the day than I do now.
I get that the economy has tanked and all of that - rationally, I understand all of the factors. Irrationally, my mind associates that I'm, today, paying more for less - I used to get 288 minis for $540, and now I'm getting 136 minis for $520.
I definitely want a complete set of the minis, but at the same time, I want lots of extras of the commons and uncommons for encounters, and I don't want to have to buy another case (and spend nearly $1000 for what I used to pay $500 for).
Like I said, I'm not complaining, just rambling about my internal thought processes - I'm still willingly buying miniatures...
Your observations on human nature and your quest for understanding perhaps?
What is the sound of one hand clapping indeed.
For those wondering about a smaller case without a guaruntee of getting the entire set; isn't that what in effect a Brick is?
Not really, considering the artificial randomness of the distribution.
Since humans are actively involved in an attempt at even distribution of minis in case quantities, I would bet that the odds of buying a brick from two separate cases could result in a far higher chance of dupes than in a true randomization.
Even though the packs are blind, they're not truly random-packed.
I removed a post. Please be civil.
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Lol come off it man, I know there's a lot of WOTC hate on these boards but I wouldn't say the quality was that bad on their miniatures. And yes surprise surprise if people feel something is expensive they'll say so. I'm a paizo fan but I've not drunk the koolaid.
And at a suggested retail price of nearly $700 is sorta assume a guarantee of a full set...though as I've said all along lotta us got em with heroes and monsters...
First of all... the RotL Mini set is NOT $700 but $519.
Now on the quality of the WotC Miniatures. The quality was decent on the rares only. The quality of the paint jobs on the commons and uncommons were bad but not horrendous (well some from one set, forget which one but the one that actually showed on the minis you get with it, I think deep denizens was HORRENDOUS!!). Having done some repainting and selling of them in various venues there are some that agree with me in that regard.I am a Paizo fan but I too did not drink the Kool Aid but nor did I drink the Kool Aid that is WotC too. I have been playing D&D now for 38 years and have acquired more then one or two minis and WotC's minis while ground breaking and good, was not the end all of be all for PPMs. The Pathfinder PPM's are of much better quality in both paint AND sculpt. I do not think this is just my opinion as in most of the people I speak too during the several games I run a week and the local game store I hang out at more then a day or two a week say the same thing. Now does that count for everyone, no. It is my opinion for what it matters and some people I know.
While yes this set IS expensive but then again so was the WotC cases when THEY came out at the time. Not to mention you HAD to buy more then one or two cases to get a full set too. I have bought 4 cases so far of the Lords of Madness and have YET to get a full set. At $479.96 total cost it is NOT cheap either. for about $40 more I can get The RotRL set and 95% get a full set. I would be MUCH happier if I had a full set.
I will go for the Pathfinder sets more so then I will EVER go for anything made by WotC again as I refuse to drink either of the kool aids form either businesses I do this by choice not by them forcing me too :)
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I will chime in on this.
I agree that the Pathfinder Battles sculpts and paint jobs are overall better than the WOTC sets.
I also used to buy 4 cases of WOTC minis with every release and then I would go on ebay and buy another $100 worth of minis to round out the set and buy anything I missed in my four cases.
In the two cases I bought with the previous release I got a full set with each case and enough duplicates of things I wanted more of that I bought less than 5 other minis from either Paizo or Ebay.
I am happy with quality and happy to pay the price asked for a case. I also love that it is AP specific and we are getting unique minis for Runelords. I hope this continues in the future. I would love to see a set come out for an AP within six months of the AP being produced. I do not know how Paizo would catch up with all the APs they have done. Maybe three sets a year would do it. Two for the current AP's for the year and one as a catch up for a past AP. I am looking forward to CotCT, and I would like SD. Of course right now I am running SS and CC. But I want them all - so let's get on the stick... :)