Best Save-or-Die build?


Advice


So I just noticed the Void Specialist Wizard.

That's an amazing specialization, I gotta say. I think of all the specialist schools it's the only one that impresses me as much as the Conjuratist.

The only downside to the active power is that it's a standard action, meaning that you usually wouldn't be able to take advantage of it yourself. With a good quicken rod though you could totally do it.

So my question is, would the Void Specialist be the best Save-or-Die Class option, or would something else be better?

Like for instance, would a Witch with her Evil Eye be just better? Or maybe there's a Cleric or Oracle build I'm not thinking of?

What I'm looking for is a class that has the best odds for save-or-die spells to be effective.

In other words, I'm looking to increase the save DC as high as I can, or lower the enemy's saving throw as much as I can - preferably in a manner that doesn't allow them to resist it.


Witch might be better, but not for evil eye. For Slumber and Ice Tomb. They also get a bunch of will save or die spells like Hold Person/Monster and Dominate Person/Monster and for fort spells they get Baleful Polymorph.

Not sure they're the best, though. They just get the ability to throw them all day and eventually hit two targets at once (split hex feats). Dual-Cursed Oracle or cleric w/ the madness domain could be superior, and the wizard you mentioned sounds quite formidabble at it as well.

Whichever class you use, if you want to build a save or die character, I strongly suggest Dazing Spell metamagic feat. Because reflex tends to not have *any* save or lose/die. It helps round out your arsenal by sticking "dazed for...long enough" to a reflex save.


StreamOfTheSky wrote:

Witch might be better, but not for evil eye. For Slumber and Ice Tomb. They also get a bunch of will save or die spells like Hold Person/Monster and Dominate Person/Monster and for fort spells they get Baleful Polymorph.

Not sure they're the best, though. They just get the ability to throw them all day and eventually hit two targets at once (split hex feats). Dual-Cursed Oracle or cleric w/ the madness domain could be superior, and the wizard you mentioned sounds quite formidabble at it as well.

Whichever class you use, if you want to build a save or die character, I strongly suggest Dazing Spell metamagic feat. Because reflex tends to not have *any* save or lose/die. It helps round out your arsenal by sticking "dazed for...long enough" to a reflex save.

Well, I'm not really looking for a class with a lot of save-or-die options... My oracle has spells that target every save - I'm pretty sure any caster class can do that.

What I'm looking for is a class that has the best odds for save-or-die spells to be effective.

In other words, I'm looking to increase the save DC as high as I can, or lower the enemy's saving throw as much as I can - preferably in a manner that doesn't allow them to resist it.

I shall edit my main post with this clarification.

I can see how a Dual-Cursed oracle could be good since he basically gets persistent spell as an immediate action for saving throws.

Madness domain is probably better than the Void specialization though since the Saving Throw penalty is equal, but lasts more than one round allowing the Cleric to actually take advantage of that...

I'll have to play with those options a little bit - especially the madness one.


Some classes such get bonuses to certain schools or subschools. Other than that the classes are basically equal. As for the Void Specialist wizard I look for it on d20prd, but I could not find it, so I don't know what it does.


Void arcane school on d20pfsrd


I see. Reveal Weakness is pretty strong. It does not even allow a save.

Sovereign Court

I was going to say Madness cleric casting Energy Drain & Implosion. But too many standard actions required...

Scarab Sages

A sorcorer of the arcane bloodline gains a +2 bonus to the DC of spells from one school that stacks with that from Spell Focus (and presumabbly Greater Spell Focus) at 15th level. I don't recall any other class that grants a stackable +2 DC bonus like that. Likely if you had this feature, Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus along with a maxed out Cha, you'd have the toughest save DC's for your spells. Just choose the school of magic you boost wisely.

I'll add that, after checking out the Void specialist, that is probably a better route unless you exhaust the 3+Int mod uses of Reveal Weakness in a single day.


Yeah, that's a pretty awesome power, the void specialist certainly seems like a strong candidate (or ideally you have an ally who's a void wizard).

Some other options:

Arcane Bloodline sorcerors can get +2 on a chosen school. Since you'll almost always want to apply Persistent Spell metamagic to your SoDs, the Arcana of the Arcane Bloodline will effectively give you yet another +1.

Spellslinger wizards get to apply their gun's bonus to save DCs. That's potentially a +5 that stacks with everything else. The downside is that it only applies to certain types of spells, and there are not many SoDs among them (Prismatic Spray is one, though).

Spell Perfection doubles the bonus from spell focus and elemental focus. If you can find more esoteric feats that buff spell dcs, it will also double those (Arcane School spirit, ex.). It also doubles Spell Penetration, giving further assurance that your chosen spell will land.

Elemental Focus stacks with Spell focus, if you can somehow find an SoD spell with an elemental descriptor.

Witches get the Ill Omen spell, which has no save and forces an enemy to roll twice on a number of rolls (only downside is the mind-affecting descriptor), picking the lowest result. Great one to quicken before casting your SoD. Also, stacking Ill Omen and Persistent spell forces the enemy to roll 4 times, picking the lowest roll. How's that for nice odds? :-)


Bouncing, Persistent Hold Person is only a 5th level spell for a cleric/oracle/witch. Someone is bound to fail their save. Sure, it requires a follow-up coup de grace to truly be save-or-die, but it seems pretty potent to me!

Compare that to, say, a regular old Baleful Polymorph. My money's on the Bouncing, Persistent Hold Person!

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