ashley eastham |
Hi all. First time posting here, long time paizo fan.
I'm going to try and run ravenloft 2: house on gryphon hill as a side game for my group soon, and am hoping for some general advice on how to deal with starting character level, and cr conversion from the module to pathfinder.
Seems like the recommended starting level of 8-10 for the original module suggests that the pathfinder pcs should be 9-11 to me, but i only played 2nd ed dragonlance, so my experience here is limited. advice?
also, converting crs from the module, it seems like some of the monsters are not really a threat, while some are super dangerous. that, i think, was the way of things back in ad&d days, but does anyone have any insight along these lines for how to best adjust things?
I do have a fair amount of experience dming pathfinder, so i can just wing it, but i would appreciate some advice/experience/guidelines if there are any out there.
thanks a bunch all.
shiverscar RPG Superstar 2012 Top 8 |
First off, check out Mistfinder. It's the most complete conversion of Ravenloft to Pathfinder I've found so far and it might provide you with a lot of help in converting a Ravenloft module to Pathfinder. Any work you don't have to do is good in my books.
Secondly, characters in Pathfinder are more powerful than their counterparts from previous editions. You'll probably want the PCs to be somewhat lower level, 7-9, or even 6-8 if you really want to challenge them. Largely it should be based on the average CR of the encounters and how challenged you want your PCs to feel. It may end up being that 8-10 is just right in terms of challenge.
Third, what monsters in particular are seeming underpowered or overpowered? Have you converted them to Pathfinder equivalents or is this just eyeballing the stat blocks from the module? Best thing to do is convert them, check the CR of the converted monster and gauge from there. If they're too powerful, consider applying the Young template from the bestiary. If they're too weak, look at the Advanced template, or consider increasing the number of creatures in the encounter.
ashley eastham |
thanks.
i'm mostly confused by the general lack of balance in the encounters. sometimes the pcs are to fight a large spider or some wolves, other times a bodak, some ogres, and some net throwing vultures. and then there's the encounter with an 18th level litch, and another with an 18th level shade of a cleric. just seems a bit sporadic. i suppose that was part of the flavor of ad&d.
i'll look over the mistfinder link, and try the pcs starting out at 9th level and see how it goes. i'll just try and scale things accordingly i think. the templates will be helpful in scaling things accordingly as well. any experience with figuring the saves in earlier dnd and how they work in later editions? it seems the situation dictates the type of save fairly well, but the modifiers used in the original module are a bit foreign to me.
thanks again.
shiverscar RPG Superstar 2012 Top 8 |
Converting from the old Save vs Wand, Save vs Spell, Save vs Breath Weapon to Fort/Will/Reflex involves a lot of guesswork on your part. Saves are largely based on the nature of the attack, rather than its source. Saves vs. Poison, Petrification, Paralysis would largely be fortitude saves now, but the spell Hold Person causes paralysis and requires a Will save.
Your best bet is to look for equivalents for the spell or effect in PF and go from there. If you can't find an equivalent, go with your gut, figure out which of the three saves (Fort/Will/Ref) is most appropriate and gauge how hard or easy the save DC should be based on the severity of the encounter.
Learning to convert is a tricky process at first, but it becomes much easier once you start getting a feel for the rules and how things look when Pathfinderized.
I'm fairly sure I know who the 18th level lich is and I think he was still 18th level in 3ed too. I think it was the nature of the old adventures to have some absurdly difficult encounters; characters were supposed to die. If you want to keep that old flavour, leave them as is. An 18th level lich is a CR20 creature all by itself. A group of level 12 characters would have a hell of a time toppling him, but at level 12, they might just stroll through the other encounters. There's a template in the Varnhold Vanishing module called Atrophied Lich that'd knock him down in power some if you want the players to stand a fighting chance, though it might be simpler just to lower him and the shade down 2-4 levels in that case.
Be sure to post here as well with specific questions. There are a lot of people with experience converting from as far back as the original D&D modules, so someone has probably run into the same issues you have.
Good luck!
meatrace |
I've never played the original Tomb of Horros, but I have played the 3E update. It was mind-bogglingly brutal. There is a pit trap that, if you fall down (and pardon my memory if I'm not 100 accurate) you get hit by like 1d10 spikes, each of which do 1d6 CON DRAIN. Like...ow? And that's like in the opening foyer.
Our DM had to give us all "extra life" tokens because he wanted us to actually get through it, cuz a TPK every combat is no fun.
clff rice |
Well you could just have the players leveled towards the Upper middle Cr of the encounters. Lover level encounters are fun because the players can just ROFLstomp them (+ it uses up resources Muahaha)Or you could just throw a class level or two on the appropriate Critters to even things out. This is Where templates on weaker monsters are handy. The upper level uber encounters (Azalin Rex and the shade) Unless i recall incorectly can largely be handles with roleplaying. TO be fair the players should have atleast a Vauge idea that the Encounters will spork their arses if they pick a more violent rout.
daemonslye |
...it seems like some of the monsters are not really a threat, while some are super dangerous. that, i think, was the way of things back in ad&d days, but does anyone have any insight along these lines for how to best adjust things?
Well, good luck on this one, I ran it way back when, and it really takes advantage of the "looseness" of the 1E rules set.
Azalin can be run "as is", he puts up a half-hearted effort before zipping out. So, it's really an encounter to scare the PCs more than anything.
As for Tandle Coreystal, ouch. Yeah, 18th level shade cleric with some undead friends. I'd just pull the cleric level down to an acceptable CR; Maybe 9th level. It's a bit of a side encounter... Maybe just delete it. I certainly don't remember my group hitting that encounter.
Let us know how it goes. While the module felt like a bit of an experiment in design, you can't go wrong with Tracy (and Laura) Hickman.
~D
Arnwolf |
AD&D was balanced completely differenty. The saving throw system was different, the spells worked differently, monster armor classes all different. It was very possible at the lower levels to take out 20HD critters.
BTW, my motto is that all editions of dnd are balanced, there is just unbalanced encounters. Probaly like that for all games.
additionally a Lich less than 18th level is an embarassment to the 3.x games (in my opinion).