Killer trait, polar ray and confirmed critical

[Sangalor]

What happens? Where is the +2 damage added to? Thanks!

[bigkilla]

Sangalor wrote:

What happens? Where is the +2 damage added to? Thanks!

You simply add 2 damage to the overall total.

[Sangalor]

bigkilla wrote:

Sangalor wrote:

What happens? Where is the +2 damage added to? Thanks!

I do not believe you get the benefit of the Killer trait with Polar Ray. Unless you are ruling that Polar Ray is a weapon and not a spell. If you do it that way you simply add 2 damage to the overall total.

Killer
You made your first kill at a very young age and found the task of war or murder to your liking. You either take particular pride in a well-placed blow, or vile pleasure in such a strike as you twist the blade to maximize the pain.

Benefit: You deal additional damage equal to your weapon’s critical hit modifier when you score a successful critical hit with a weapon; this additional damage is added to the final total, and is not multiplied by the critical hit multiple itself. This extra damage is a trait bonus.

Rays count as weapons, that is why you can take weapon focus (ray). And polar ray has two damage types, so there is no overall total. That is why I ask :-)

[bigkilla]

Sangalor wrote:

bigkilla wrote:

Sangalor wrote:

What happens? Where is the +2 damage added to? Thanks!

I do not believe you get the benefit of the Killer trait with Polar Ray. Unless you are ruling that Polar Ray is a weapon and not a spell. If you do it that way you simply add 2 damage to the overall total.

Killer
You made your first kill at a very young age and found the task of war or murder to your liking. You either take particular pride in a well-placed blow, or vile pleasure in such a strike as you twist the blade to maximize the pain.

Benefit: You deal additional damage equal to your weapon’s critical hit modifier when you score a successful critical hit with a weapon; this additional damage is added to the final total, and is not multiplied by the critical hit multiple itself. This extra damage is a trait bonus.

Rays count as weapons, that is why you can take weapon focus (ray). And polar ray has two damage types, so there is no overall total. That is why I ask :-)

Yeah I just read up on rays, it would be only a +2 damage. And polar ray only deals 1 type of damage, cold.Killer would have no effect on the dex drain.

[Sangalor]

bigkilla wrote:

Sangalor wrote:

bigkilla wrote:

Sangalor wrote:

What happens? Where is the +2 damage added to? Thanks!

I do not believe you get the benefit of the Killer trait with Polar Ray. Unless you are ruling that Polar Ray is a weapon and not a spell. If you do it that way you simply add 2 damage to the overall total.

Killer
You made your first kill at a very young age and found the task of war or murder to your liking. You either take particular pride in a well-placed blow, or vile pleasure in such a strike as you twist the blade to maximize the pain.

Benefit: You deal additional damage equal to your weapon’s critical hit modifier when you score a successful critical hit with a weapon; this additional damage is added to the final total, and is not multiplied by the critical hit multiple itself. This extra damage is a trait bonus.

Rays count as weapons, that is why you can take weapon focus (ray). And polar ray has two damage types, so there is no overall total. That is why I ask :-)

Yeah I just read up on rays, it would be only a +2 damage. And polar ray only deals 1 type of damage, cold.Killer would have no effect on the dex drain.

Ah, you are right, my mistake :-) So if I looked at a ray spell that deals ability damage, it would add there? And I am not sure if there is one, but if a spell had two damage types - where would it be added two? Thanks for your help :-)

EDIT: enervation was wrong example

[bigkilla]

Well if it deals 2 types of damage you could simply add 1 point to each type.I do not believe that there is any rule stating how it would be divided.As for the ability damage it would not add any damage to that.Ability damage is not HP damage which is what Inspire Courage modifies.

[Sangalor]

bigkilla wrote:

Well if it deals 2 types of damage you could simply add 1 point to each type.I do not believe that there is any rule stating how it would be divided.As for the ability damage it would not add any damage to that.Ability damage is not HP damage which is what Inspire Courage modifies.

That's what I thought until recently. But when I look at the inspire courage definition

Quote:

A 1st level bard can use his performance to inspire courage in his allies (including himself), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to perceive the bard’s performance. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 competence bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. At 5th level, and every six bard levels thereafter, this bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +4 at 17th level. Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability. Inspire courage can use audible or visual components. The bard must choose which component to use when starting his performance.

I do not see anything stating that it must be HP damage. Instead, it says bonus on damage rolls which could mean that ability damage rolls are included as well. Hence my questions :-)

[Diskordant]

Actually it says "weapon damage rolls," which is different than "damage rolls". I was just reading in another thread about a similar issue and there was a developer quote that said something along the lines of "if it doesn't do HP damage it doesn't benefit from feats that work on weapons." that would mean a ray that doesn't do HP damage wouldn't be a weapon, and therefore has no weapon damage.

[Diskordant]

Okay here's the quote:

Sean K Reynolds, 10/22/10: wrote:

Weapon Specialization (page 137): Can you take Weapon Specialization (ray) or Improved Critical (ray) as feats? How about Weapon Specialization (bomb) or Improved Critical (bomb)?
All four of those are valid choices.
Note that Weapon Specialization (ray) only adds to hit point damage caused by a ray attack that would normally deal hit point damage; it doesn't increase ability score damage or drain (such as the Dexterity drain from polar ray), penalties to ability scores (such as from ray of enfeeblement) or drain, negative levels (such as from enervation), or other damage or penalties from rays.

And weapon specilization:

PRD wrote:

You are skilled at dealing damage with one weapon. Choose one type of weapon (including unarmed strike or grapple ) for which you have already selected the Weapon Focus feat. You deal extra damage when using this weapon.

Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, fighter level 4th.

Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all damage rolls you make using the selected weapon.

Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.

Weapon specialization does not specify HP damage either and yet is restricted to HP. So while this does not mean no ability damage by RAW, it is clearly does by RAI.