It's strange that they have multiple human languages in the setting but do not include any of them as potential bonus languages for starting characters with a high INT. If that's not in the setting specific stuff somewhere, I think it would be a good house rule. As an elf I can choose Celestial, Dragonic, and Gnome, but not Varisian or Skald (when I've lived in the region all of my life)?
I'd like to interpret "Common" in the player's guide to really mean "Human" (as in, whatever human language is most common where you are from) and then add "other Human" to everyone's list of potential bonus languages.
I guess my question is "Is this in the setting specific stuff somewhere, or do I need to house rule it?"
It's strange that they have multiple human languages in the setting but do not include any of them as potential bonus languages for starting characters with a high INT. If that's not in the setting specific stuff somewhere, I think it would be a good house rule. As an elf I can choose Celestial, Dragonic, and Gnome, but not Varisian or Skald (when I've lived in the region all of my life)?
I'd like to interpret "Common" in the player's guide to really mean "Human" (as in, whatever human language is most common where you are from) and then add "other Human" to everyone's list of potential bonus languages.
I guess my question is "Is this in the setting specific stuff somewhere, or do I need to house rule it?"
Languages: Humans begin play speaking Common. Humans with high Intelligence scores can choose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic).
edit:In Golarion you also get a free starting language based on your ethnicticity IIRC.
It's part of the disconnect from having the rules books be setting neutral. The rules only assume a single language (common) for humans and trade, so they make no mention of the setting specific regional languages.
The assumption for the Inner Sea World Guide is that Taldane is "common", and you can learn any of the other regional languages as appropriate to your character background. Of course, I'd swap Taldane with a regional language if I started the campaign somewhere outside the central inner sea.
Creative Director
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yup; In Golarion, your starting languages as a human are determined by your ethnicity, as listed on the first line of the ethnicity entries on pages 12–23. That DOES mean that a few ethnicities start with fewer languages (Chelaxians and Taldans only start with Common) than others.
"Common" in the Core Rulebook is indeed something you can interpret as "Human." In that any ethnicity language in Golarion is something anyone who can learn Common can learn.
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yup; In Golarion, your starting languages as a human are determined by your ethnicity, as listed on the first line of the ethnicity entries on pages 12–23. That DOES mean that a few ethnicities start with fewer languages (Chelaxians and Taldans only start with Common) than others.
That does reflect the real-life attitude of the English, who are, as a rule, rubbish at learning other languages, not because they can't, but because they leave it too late, with the attitude "Everyone speaks my language, why should I bother?"
yup; In Golarion, your starting languages as a human are determined by your ethnicity, as listed on the first line of the ethnicity entries on pages 12–23. That DOES mean that a few ethnicities start with fewer languages (Chelaxians and Taldans only start with Common) than others.
That does reflect the real-life attitude of the English, who are, as a rule, rubbish at learning other languages, not because they can't, but because they leave it too late, with the attitude "Everyone speaks my language, why should I bother?"
In the states, at least (aside from Miami and New Mexico/Texas) most everyone does speak English and it becomes substantially harder to learn another language as our own is so ubiquitous and there is a distinct lack of a chance to practice. In addition to English, I used to speak fluent Lithuanian, passable Russian and could survive a few days in French or German-speaking environments. I can now speak English and would probably not insult anyone's mother in Spanish... too badly. I think.
EDIT: I'm supposing that's the concept: that it's really just a lack of real practice options combined with life chores that limits it rather than true snobbishness.
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Creative Director
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yup; In Golarion, your starting languages as a human are determined by your ethnicity, as listed on the first line of the ethnicity entries on pages 12–23. That DOES mean that a few ethnicities start with fewer languages (Chelaxians and Taldans only start with Common) than others.That does reflect the real-life attitude of the English, who are, as a rule, rubbish at learning other languages, not because they can't, but because they leave it too late, with the attitude "Everyone speaks my language, why should I bother?"
More to the point, it lets you play the game without bogging down in the fact that one or more player characters doesn't speak the language spoken by the other player characters or 89% of the NPCs you encounter.
Some times we make up rules to make the game work, and implications on the real world simulation side of things just don't matter.
"Common" in the Core Rulebook is indeed something you can interpret as "Human." In that any ethnicity language in Golarion is something anyone who can learn Common can learn.
So a demihuman can take different Human languages as bonus languages for a high INT (instead of goblin, etc...)?
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Creative Director
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So a demihuman can take different Human languages as bonus languages for a high INT (instead of goblin, etc...)?
"Common" in the Core Rulebook is indeed something you can interpret as "Human." In that any ethnicity language in Golarion is something anyone who can learn Common can learn.
Yes.
And, in a reversal of the OP's query...do the other races also have regional languages?
For example: do the elves in Tian Xia speak not only Elven (standard) but a Tien-elven variant as well?
Note, this question is in reaction to my hubby's [rather strongly-worded] opinion that once 'common' is developed and becomes widespread, other languages would fade away. Especially if all the other rces use 'Human' to speak to humans and also have only one world-wide langage as well. I do not agree with that, given a comparison with the real world and many such attempts at forming a 'Common' language.
So, I guess my question also boils down to either why don't all other races retain their local languages, or why do just humans retain all theirs?
Is there a list of all the Golarion languages anywhere? The only thing I've been able to find is listed with each ethnicity, which means that I end up stitching together a list by sorting through the ISWG races one at a time. Surely there's a compiled list somewhere that I just haven't been able to find, right?
Is there a list of all the Golarion languages anywhere? The only thing I've been able to find is listed with each ethnicity, which means that I end up stitching together a list by sorting through the ISWG races one at a time. Surely there's a compiled list somewhere that I just haven't been able to find, right?
I don't think it's a complete list, but the Pathfinder Wiki [www.pathfinderwiki.com] has an extensive list.
It's broken down into Languages of Golarion: human, dead, non-human, darklands and Languages of the Great Beyond.
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I'm working on starting a campaign based in and around the Obari Ocean, starting in Katapesh. For that campaign, I've just declared Osiriani to be the campaign's Common, with Keleshite and Vudrani being commonly spoken.
I'll probably work out a list of languages from most common to least common, something like this:
Common Tongue: Osiriani
Commonly encountered: Keleshite, Vudrani, Halfling, Gnoll
Uncommon languages: Polyglot, Taldane, Tien, Elf, Dwarf, Giant
Rare languages: Gnome, Sylvan, Auran, Ignan, Aquan, Terran (mostly among jinn), Draconic
Very Rare languages: Skald, Hallit, Varisian, Orc, Goblin, Celestial, Infernal, Abyssal
Probably never see other languages.
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Note, this question is in reaction to my hubby's [rather strongly-worded] opinion that once 'common' is developed and becomes widespread, other languages would fade away. Especially if all the other rces use 'Human' to speak to humans and also have only one world-wide langage as well. I do not agree with that, given a comparison with the real world and many such attempts at forming a 'Common' language.
Of course, this is why we all speak Latin today.
What your husband describes is called language shift, and it is a real phenomenon. However, specific languages are not maintained as a single monolithic tongue for a number of reasons:
- The language of a community might remain distinct for interpersonal dealings while not corresponding to the "common tongue"--note the continued existence of Welsh, despite the dominance of English
- As communities remain separated, dialects and new language identities grow--thus Latin can become French, Italian, Spanish, etc.
- Adults learn new languages poorly, and most learning of new langauges take place among children. Thus, it takes at least a generation to witness a language shift, and a generation can take a LONG time in PF
- The PF system does not really model the growth, propagation, adoption, and separation of languages--so the languages in place look more static than they really are
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Creative Director
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And, in a reversal of the OP's query...do the other races also have regional languages?
For example: do the elves in Tian Xia speak not only Elven (standard) but a Tien-elven variant as well?
Note, this question is in reaction to my hubby's [rather strongly-worded] opinion that once 'common' is developed and becomes widespread, other languages would fade away. Especially if all the other rces use 'Human' to speak to humans and also have only one world-wide langage as well. I do not agree with that, given a comparison with the real world and many such attempts at forming a 'Common' language.
So, I guess my question also boils down to either why don't all other races retain their local languages, or why do just humans retain all theirs?
Not really... the other races aren't as globally spread out as humans are, and as a result they don't have regional languages. Elven is still elven in Tian Xia. Having numerous different languages and ethnicities is a distinctly human thing in Golarion.
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Creative Director
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Is there a list of all the Golarion languages anywhere? The only thing I've been able to find is listed with each ethnicity, which means that I end up stitching together a list by sorting through the ISWG races one at a time. Surely there's a compiled list somewhere that I just haven't been able to find, right?
Page 251 of the Inner Sea World Guide has a relatively complete list of the languages spoken in the Inner Sea Region, while pages 49–60 of the Dragon Empires Gazetteer does the same for Tian Xia. Neither of these lists are COMPLETELY complete, since we didn't include obscure monster languages.
A complete list of ALL Golarion languages will likely never see print—at least, not until all eight continents have Gazetteers... something that's unlikely to happen anytime soon.