Occupy Wall Street!


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OWS movement is a local manifestation of a global sapling: one that questions the current economical ruleç/politics but not necessarily its system. I won't praise nor will I criticise this last part, but IMHO it's a good sign that people question/dislike the obvious excesses this system has allowed, some of them well known, I afraid most of the well hidden between the system's own frame. A good sample of a similar movement outside the US is this: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movimiento_15-M , the spanish version of the topic.

The thing started in march (hence the name 15-M) and it has already been assimilated by both the left and right sided main parties, but I'm quite confident that it has started something that could drive every-day people to try to question this Ponzi Scheme that we call financial system...

I'm sorry the link has no english translation but lots of you folks already speak spanish better than I write english xD.


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The Crypt Keeper wrote:

It would be interesting to see if this turns violent.

Um, it's already been violent for about a week now. The cops are kicking much ass. Go look at all the youtube videos.


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Carnestolendas wrote:

OWS movement is a local manifestation of a global sapling: one that questions the current economical ruleç/politics but not necessarily its system. I won't praise nor will I criticise this last part, but IMHO it's a good sign that people question/dislike the obvious excesses this system has allowed, some of them well known, I afraid most of the well hidden between the system's own frame. A good sample of a similar movement outside the US is this: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movimiento_15-M , the spanish version of the topic.

The thing started in march (hence the name 15-M) and it has already been assimilated by both the left and right sided main parties, but I'm quite confident that it has started something that could drive every-day people to try to question this Ponzi Scheme that we call financial system...

I'm sorry the link has no english translation but lots of you folks already speak spanish better than I write english xD.

Similar things that've gone down recently: Egypt, of course, Spain, Chile, Greece to a certain extent, and, of all places, Israel.


Carnestolendas wrote:

OWS movement is a local manifestation of a global sapling: one that questions the current economical ruleç/politics but not necessarily its system. I won't praise nor will I criticise this last part, but IMHO it's a good sign that people question/dislike the obvious excesses this system has allowed, some of them well known, I afraid most of the well hidden between the system's own frame. A good sample of a similar movement outside the US is this: linked! , the spanish version of the topic.

The thing started in march (hence the name 15-M) and it has already been assimilated by both the left and right sided main parties, but I'm quite confident that it has started something that could drive every-day people to try to question this Ponzi Scheme that we call financial system...

I'm sorry the link has no english translation but lots of you folks already speak spanish better than I write english xD.

Ha aglutinado a diversos colectivos ciudadanos con distintos lemas, como el de la manifestación del 15 de mayo: «No somos marionetas en manos de políticos y banqueros»1 o «Democracia real ¡YA! No somos mercancía en manos de políticos y banqueros».2

Estoy de acuerdo. There's a box at the top to translate.

Liberty's Edge

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Sebastian wrote:
Darkwing Duck wrote:
The sourcewatch articles you keep pointing to are about 98% unsourced (that means they don't cite where they got about 98% of their content). That makes political news from them about as reliable as political news from a paranoid schizophrenic street person.

Hey now! I get all my news from a paranoid schizophrenic street person. He's at least as reliable as cable news and even helped me craft the tinfoil hat that protects me from the orbital mind lasers.

I told you the fluffernutter was going to make dilbert zishizzle in his turnip reactor! That those guys would even makrenate that ideological toot-toot is a sheer sign that the sphincter aliens are coming to rub against all of our corn cobs!


A question I'd like to pose

Does OWS represent the first earnest effort by the left to support the 10th amendment?

10th Amendment wrote:


The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

If it does, then OWS is much bigger and much more significant than I originally realized.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Development

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I've been watching this grow for the last 3 weeks, and I have to say I'm really impressed by their spelling. I haven't seen a mistake on a sign yet.


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The Tea Party started out as an astroturf movement in 2007 to try to test market fiscal conservatism with populist outrage.

Yes, 2007. Before the 2008 Bear Sterns/AIG melt-down.

It's not some tendril of some dark, shadowy conspiracy of the Illuminati. It was an attempt at test marketing a way to get the fiscal-conservatives and populists to the polls in numbers sufficient to carry a GOP that was saddled with GW Bush as President, and a choice between a stuffed shirt (Romney), an elderly guy who didn't stay in the lines (McCain) or two Southerners (Huckabee and Thompson) who would have about as much chance of winning as Idi Amihn replacing Alton Brown on Good Eats.

What the people doing the astroturfing didn't know is that astroturfing with populism is like throwing lit matches and puddles of gasoline. Nice little explosions, but contained. Then came 2008.

And suddenly, that astroturf movement got TEETH. It was shortly AFTER 2009 that the Tea Party's stance on illegal immigration got turned into "They're all a bunch of Know-Nothing Bigots" as the narrative discourse - and Fox News was quite complicit in that narrative, just as much as other news outlets are. (I've been to the Tea Party rallies - I've also been to Democratic ward meetings. The Democratic Ward Meetings were ALL functionally segregated; black candidates talked to black audiences, white candidates talked to white audiences, and if you were the strange white face in the black audience listening to what the black candidate was saying...it got really uncomfortable. Personal experience.)

The OWS may be an astroturf organization; the Tea Party isn't any more. The Republican party is desperately hoping the Tea Party populist movement dies out before it fractures the Republicans into two blocs that can't win an election over the Democrats. And they can let the Democrats do the hatchet-work for them.

Both Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party are populist movements. The corporatist power structure in the US is VERY MUCH AFRAID of populist movements. Which is why the Tea Party movement is tarred and feathered as racist bigots, and why it took three goddamned weeks for Occupy Wall Street to make the front page of CNN.com.

What the poster (can't find their handle up above) said about the financial services industries (and vampire squid creatures) is precisely correct.

The first rule of any "narrowly focused" political movement is this: Your opponents will do everything in their power to make sure that anything you say or do looks like an extremist whack-job position. They will dredge anything you said that can be spun that way - even 25 year old position papers - and try to make sure that it's the most negative perspective and coverage possible, so that the people who DON'T do multiple sourcing on news media immediately do word association games like:

"Tea Party Movement" == "Redneck bigots who want to own black people."
"National Health System" == "Death panels for Grandma!"
"Occupy Wall Street" == "Oh, those crazy college socialists. Wait until they sober up..."

When the Occupy Wall Street Movement doesn't go away, expect the narrative to be set in concrete about how they're really Bad People who want to Ruin America.

The Occupy Wall Street protests and the Tea Party of 2008-2010 are expressions of the same outrage. They have more in common with each other than either of the K-street owned major political parties.

I am of the opinion that campaign finance "reform" is problematic on both a free speech issue and on a "drive the money where it can't be accounted for" issue, that we should remove all campaign finance reform legislation, but enact the following instead:

1) ALL DONATIONS are publicly tracked and accounted for in a publicly accessible database that shows the account balances of all candidates. There is no "financial services privilege" if you're running for public office.

2) Video recording and audio recording of people in the public employ is treated as a First Amendment Right. This means that if you're a political candidate, you put up with 24/7 monitoring. There may be a 60 day shield law for issues of national security, but that 60 day shield is a "will open in 60 days unless a court filing is made" statute, not a "we will discuss revealing it in 60 days."

Money and the sclerotic corruption it brings to elections has been known since the Greeks of Athens. The solution isn't to incentivize hiding the money. It's to make everything as transparent as possible.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
1) End corporate personhood. A corporation does not exist except on paper, by laws written by the government and subject to the governments will. If you do not have the responsibilities and liability of a human being, you are not a human being. This malarky where 6 people can become a board, commit illegal acts, and all point to a non existent 7th person and say "he did it"

I couldn't possibly agree more.


AdAstraGames wrote:

as much chance of winning as Idi Amihn replacing Alton Brown on Good Eats.

Wow. Now there's a mental picture.


AdAstraGames wrote:
Both Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party are populist movements. The corporatist power structure in the US is VERY MUCH AFRAID...

Not of the tea party. They sponsored that.


The Crypt Keeper wrote:


I think that there are two sides in this country that hate/despise each other and they need to work things out - even if it goes all 1861.

There aren't just two sides. There is a false dichotomy that has been put in place and perpetuated by the two parties and the media. It has become more polarized over the years to the point where our federal government is paralyzed by the power plays that go on, no matter which side happens to be in control, and those of us that aren't making millions or billions continue to see our situations worsen because of it, no matter which way we vote.


Benicio Del Espada wrote:
AdAstraGames wrote:
Both Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party are populist movements. The corporatist power structure in the US is VERY MUCH AFRAID...
Not of the tea party. They sponsored that.

Its a shame that, while the rest of us desire to have a good discussion about OWS, you not only demonstrate no such desire, but persistently try to change the focus of this discussion to the Tea Party.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
AdAstraGames wrote:

as much chance of winning as Idi Amihn replacing Alton Brown on Good Eats.

Wow. Now there's a mental picture.

One that I like, mind.


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Darkwing Duck wrote:
Benicio Del Espada wrote:
AdAstraGames wrote:
Both Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party are populist movements. The corporatist power structure in the US is VERY MUCH AFRAID...
Not of the tea party. They sponsored that.
Its a shame that, while the rest of us desire to have a good discussion about OWS, you not only demonstrate no such desire, but persistently try to change the focus of this discussion to the Tea Party.

Just pointing out the glaring inconsistency of comparing them like they're the same thing, or that corporatist power is or ever was afraid of the tea party.

I agree they're not at all the same thing. Wall Street loves one, fears the other. No video of cops beating teapartiers that I'm aware of.


Benicio Del Espada wrote:
Just pointing out the glaring inconsistency of comparing them like they're the same thing

No, you're not. If that were your goal, you'd create a different thread where it could be discussed.

Your goal is to keep posting stuff you know others don't agree with until you finally provoke an argument in -this- thread which will take us off topic.


What color do you think Bill O riley would have to be painted to properly express his outrage a SEVEN HUNDRED tea party protestors being arrested? Yet when the occupy wallstreet crowd gets arrested its Those lazy idiot socialists "go to college and take a shower"


BigNorseWolf wrote:

What color do you think Bill O riley would have to be painted to properly express his outrage a SEVEN HUNDRED tea party protestors being arrested? Yet when the occupy wallstreet crowd gets arrested its Those lazy idiot socialists "go to college and take a shower"

Stop trying to provoke an argument! lol [/a joke]


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BigNorseWolf wrote:

What color do you think Bill O riley would have to be painted to properly express his outrage a SEVEN HUNDRED tea party protestors being arrested? Yet when the occupy wallstreet crowd gets arrested its Those lazy idiot socialists "go to college and take a shower"

And can you imagine what would have happened if those socialists had been carrying guns?


Benicio Del Espada wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

What color do you think Bill O riley would have to be painted to properly express his outrage a SEVEN HUNDRED tea party protestors being arrested? Yet when the occupy wallstreet crowd gets arrested its Those lazy idiot socialists "go to college and take a shower"

Stop trying to provoke an argument! lol [/a joke]

Okay, I admit, I was wrong. I assumed the OP wanted a discussion about the OWS, but he seems just as ready to focus on the Tea Party.

So, with that said, I'm still waiting for you, Benicio Del Espada, to back up your earlier claims about astroturfing. Your last referenced sources were as credible as 'The View'. I want to see a credible source.


Darkwing Duck wrote:
Benicio Del Espada wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

What color do you think Bill O riley would have to be painted to properly express his outrage a SEVEN HUNDRED tea party protestors being arrested? Yet when the occupy wallstreet crowd gets arrested its Those lazy idiot socialists "go to college and take a shower"

Stop trying to provoke an argument! lol [/a joke]

Okay, I admit, I was wrong. I assumed the OP wanted a discussion about the OWS, but he seems just as ready to focus on the Tea Party.

So, with that said, I'm still waiting for you, Benicio Del Espada, to back up your earlier claims about astroturfing. Your last referenced sources were as credible as 'The View'. I want to see a credible source.

Perfectly credible and backed up by facts. I'm done. Point made in spades.

You won't find BillO' saying it, though.


The 700 who were arrested were on the Brooklyn Bridge.

I'd like to know how 700 people can stand on the Brooklyn Bridge without potentially blocking ambulances, fire trucks, and other emergeny vehicles.

If they were blocking the free flow of any such vehicles on the bridge (whether or not such a vehicle was present) and refused to move, then they were a danger to the surrounding area.

They should be gathering in parks or other areas where they aren't creating a dangerous situation.


GM Goblin King wrote:
Perfectly credible and backed up by facts..

Where? The reference I followed earlier wasn't a credible source as it didn't reference where it got most of its so-called facts.

GM Goblin King wrote:


You won't find BillO' saying it, though.

I don't listen to Bill O'. I can't stand the man. He's about as credible as the SPLC.

Paizo Employee Senior Software Developer

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I'm OK with some discussion of the Tea Party in this thread, but only really insofar as it compares to the Occupy Wall Street thing in terms of how these movements resemble each other or differ during their early stages. If you want to talk at length about what the Tea Party is or represents today, I think that's new thread territory.

Also, let's see if we can avoid using terms like "Stockholm Syndrome", "sheeple" or other terms that serve as shorthand for painting large groups of people with a broad, negative, brush.


Can we still paint bill O Riley Neon green?


Gary Teter wrote:

I'm OK with some discussion of the Tea Party in this thread, but only really insofar as it compares to the Occupy Wall Street thing in terms of how these movements resemble each other or differ during their early stages. If you want to talk at length about what the Tea Party is or represents today, I think that's new thread territory.

Also, let's see if we can avoid using terms like "Stockholm Syndrome", "sheeple" or other terms that serve as shorthand for painting large groups of people with a broad, negative, brush.

Thank you, Gary.


Quote:

The 700 who were arrested were on the Brooklyn Bridge.

I'd like to know how 700 people can stand on the Brooklyn Bridge without potentially blocking ambulances, fire trucks, and other emergeny vehicles.

If they were blocking the free flow of any such vehicles on the bridge (whether or not such a vehicle was present) and refused to move, then they were a danger to the surrounding area.

They should be gathering in parks or other areas where they aren't creating a dangerous situation.

The police may have been the one to create/extend the jam in the first place, the protestors were led onto the bridge by police, and the crowd was shouting "let us go" when the police stopped them there.

You can easily fit 700 people into the bridge by closing off one lane. Heck, you can fit 700 people in a denny's if you pack them in. ALl police needed to do in case of emergency is change the signals on the other half of the bridge or heck, point at an oncomming ambulance and shout move aside. I've done crowd control for FAR more unruly people than the (mostly) kids protesting.

Unless the bridge itself is on fire i don't know why emergency vehicles would need to cross at all. Any emergency response plan relying on the bridge to be passable to traffic would be hopelessly optimistic at best, and both sides have their own civil services.


BigNorseWolf wrote:


The police may have been the one to create/extend the jam in the first place, the protestors were led onto the bridge by police, and the crowd was shouting "let us go" when the police stopped them there.

You can easily fit 700 people into the bridge by closing off one lane. Heck, you can fit 700 people in a denny's if you pack them in. ALl police needed to do in case of emergency is change the signals on the other half of the bridge or heck, point at an oncomming ambulance and shout move aside. I've done crowd control for FAR more unruly people than the (mostly) kids protesting.

Unless the bridge itself is on fire i don't know why emergency vehicles would need to cross at all. Any emergency response plan relying on the bridge to be passable to traffic would be hopelessly optimistic at best, and both sides have their own civil services.

This.^

Didn't Fox mention that?


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Quote:

The 700 who were arrested were on the Brooklyn Bridge.

I'd like to know how 700 people can stand on the Brooklyn Bridge without potentially blocking ambulances, fire trucks, and other emergeny vehicles.

If they were blocking the free flow of any such vehicles on the bridge (whether or not such a vehicle was present) and refused to move, then they were a danger to the surrounding area.

They should be gathering in parks or other areas where they aren't creating a dangerous situation.

The police may have been the one to create/extend the jam in the first place, the protestors were led onto the bridge by police, and the crowd was shouting "let us go" when the police stopped them there.

You can easily fit 700 people into the bridge by closing off one lane. Heck, you can fit 700 people in a denny's if you pack them in. ALl police needed to do in case of emergency is change the signals on the other half of the bridge or heck, point at an oncomming ambulance and shout move aside. I've done crowd control for FAR more unruly people than the (mostly) kids protesting.

Unless the bridge itself is on fire i don't know why emergency vehicles would need to cross at all. Any emergency response plan relying on the bridge to be passable to traffic would be hopelessly optimistic at best, and both sides have their own civil services.

You've made some worth while speculations, but don't you think that we shoud find out if the speculations have factual merit before we start accussing the city?


Most Tea Party events, at least early on, occurred on the weekends. When does the OWS events usually occur?


You've made some worth while speculations, but don't you think that we shoud find out if the speculations have factual merit before we start accussing the city?

Lets go down the list:

-The demonstraters were shouting "let us go" - irrefutable fact, its on numerous videos.

-The police stopped the protestors: I haven't seen any videos of the police even TRYING to get the protestors moving. I have seen a number of videos where people in the back of the protest were saying "Hey, how come we're not moving?" indicating that stopping for a while on the bridge wasn't the plan.

-The Brooklyn bridge undoubtedly has two halves to it. In the videos you can see traffic still moving in one direction in the background. One half or the other of the bridge gets closed frequently for construction/repair.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

You've made some worth while speculations, but don't you think that we shoud find out if the speculations have factual merit before we start accussing the city?

Lets go down the list:

-The demonstraters were shouting "let us go" - irrefutable fact, its on numerous videos.

-The police stopped the protestors: I haven't seen any videos of the police even TRYING to get the protestors moving. I have seen a number of videos where people in the back of the protest were saying "Hey, how come we're not moving?" indicating that stopping for a while on the bridge wasn't the plan.

-The Brooklyn bridge undoubtedly has two halves to it. In the videos you can see traffic still moving in one direction in the background. One half or the other of the bridge gets closed frequently for construction/repair.

According to the police, protesters who were on the walkway weren't arrested. They assert that only those who were impeding traffic were arrested.

Maybe the police are telling the truth or maybe they aren't. But you've not provided any evidence which contradicts them.
As for the bridge being two way, maybe it is. As a counter example, I know that the Ohio bridge across the Ohio river in Cincinnatti wouldn't easily allow what you suggest (ie one direction closed off and the other direction made bi-directional). If the Ohio bridge is like that, then maybe the Brooklyn bridge is as well.

I'm not saying that your speculations are prima facia wrong. I said they are worthwhile. But you've not provided enough evidence yet. Frankly, saying that you've got no evidence that the cops prevented the protesters from moving is not evidence that the cops prevented the protesters from moving.
At the end of the day, I want to know why 700 people who could have met in a safe area like a park decided to meet where they were a potential hazard.


Quote:
Maybe the police are telling the truth or maybe they aren't. But you've not provided any evidence which contradicts them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz67fULXc-0 - police leading the protestors onto the bridge.

Quote:
As for the bridge being two way, maybe it is.

ok, click the picture i provided. There is no "maybe" about this. This objection is pure epistemic nihilism and undercuts the legitimacy of your other objections.

Quote:
As a counter example, I know that the Ohio bridge across the Ohio river in Cincinnatti wouldn't easily allow what you suggest (ie one direction closed off and the other direction made bi-directional). If the Ohio bridge is like that, then maybe the Brooklyn bridge is as well.

LOOK at the pictures of the brooklyn bridge. There's two separate halves of it: its like two bridges stuck together with a giant walkway in the middle. The architecture of the bridge is not a subjective feature to be finagled to support your view.

Quote:
Frankly, saying that you've got no evidence that the cops prevented the protesters from moving is not evidence that the cops prevented the protesters from moving.

Yes, it is. At this point its like saying that the lack of evidence for Sasquatch points to the non-existence of Sasquatch.

Quote:
At the end of the day, I want to know why 700 people who could have met in a safe area like a park decided to meet where they were a potential hazard.

Because sitting in the park was getting them a combined total jack and squat's worth of media attention.

Some idiot might have actually been concerned about blocking traffic but didn't realize that arresting that many people would take longer than the protest. Malice and incompetence are pretty hard to tell apart, but i know that the police's actions did not meet their stated goal of clearing the bridge for traffic.

Liberty's Edge

Dammit mob/tribal brain engaged when I looked at FB. I guess I'll have to go to one of the protests tomorrow.

I assume everyone knows about safety in dealing with police, but here's a very pessimistic advisement for Portlanders.


thejeff wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

What color do you think Bill O riley would have to be painted to properly express his outrage a SEVEN HUNDRED tea party protestors being arrested? Yet when the occupy wallstreet crowd gets arrested its Those lazy idiot socialists "go to college and take a shower"

And can you imagine what would have happened if those socialists had been carrying guns?

Guns are about one of the only things on which I agree with the Tea Party.

Can't have a revolution when the state has a monopoly on arms!


pres man wrote:
Most Tea Party events, at least early on, occurred on the weekends. When does the OWS events usually occur?

All day, everyday. They're unemployed, after all!


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Adam Daigle wrote:
I've been watching this grow for the last 3 weeks, and I have to say I'm really impressed by their spelling. I haven't seen a mistake on a sign yet.

I can't remember where, but someone answered, in response to the perennial question "Who are these people?", "The underemployed and overeducated."

Hee hee!


Some interesting videos I have seen about this:
random commentary by someone on why he thinks issueing concrete demands is a bad idea.

An unaired interview of a protestor by Fox news. He rips Fox a new one.

edit: Sorry, forgot to link.


Caineach wrote:

Some interesting videos I have seen about this:

#1 random commentary by someone on why he thinks issueing concrete demands is a bad idea.

#2 - An unaired interview of a protestor by Fox news. He rips Fox a new one.

People, link that shit up, please!

It's easy: [url=http:blah blah blah] say something cool and it appears in blue [/url}, except that last } is a ].

"So, Ray, your partner here, colleague--"

"Comrade"

Yeah, that's the one I meant earlier.

The Exchange

Before anyone starts advocating suicide bombings in Corporate Boardrooms...lets consider the future.

Your optimal corporate model involves paying all workers in a corporation in shares so that the Company retains those funds for use over a whole year before paying out share dividends based on the economic outcomes of the company.

This is distinctly different from a situation where companies pay monster salaries to executives all year whether they are running the company into a grave or not.

Paizo Employee Senior Software Developer

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yellowdingo wrote:
Before anyone starts advocating suicide bombings in Corporate Boardrooms...

Nobody has mentioned anything of the sort. Please stop with the violent rhetoric. We do NOT need that kind of crap here.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:


The best coverage that I've seen, other than the MANY youtube videos (check out Reverend Billy and the Church of Stop Shopping, hee hee!) has been on Russia Today

See.

It's a couple of days old, but it best represents my wet dreams concerning Alyona Minkovski.


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The smartest sign.


I think coorporations aren't really people. They are more like dopplegangers. They can buy up other companies change their name and then do things so bad publicity does not cause them any problems. Coorporations> people.


Caineach wrote:
An unaired interview of a protestor by Fox news. He rips Fox a new one.

So you finally get to be on TV and you waste the entire time ripping on the channel giving you a chance to talk instead of actually, you know, discussing the entire point of your being there.

So basically,
"What's this all about?"
"Rich people suck!"
"So what is your solutions, if things worked out exactly like you'd wish, what would that look like."
"Never stop! Rich people suck!"
"Ah... Ok."


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pres man wrote:
Caineach wrote:
An unaired interview of a protestor by Fox news. He rips Fox a new one.

So you finally get to be on TV and you waste the entire time ripping on the channel giving you a chance to talk instead of actually, you know, discussing the entire point of your being there.

So basically,
"What's this all about?"
"Rich people suck!"
"So what is your solutions, if things worked out exactly like you'd wish, what would that look like."
"Never stop! Rich people suck!"
"Ah... Ok."

Is that really your takeaway?

I'm sure the interviewee knew that anything not conforming to the predetermined portrayal Fox demands would not be aired.

So, he tore them a new one.


Quote:
So you finally get to be on TV and you waste the entire time ripping on the channel giving you a chance to talk instead of actually, you know, discussing the entire point of your being there.

-one of the biggest things they're protesting is the corporate manipulation of public opinion through the media's blatant lies and skewing the facts. Fox news is a HUGE criminal in that regard.


Benicio Del Espada wrote:
I'm sure the interviewee knew that anything not conforming to the predetermined portrayal Fox demands would not be aired.

So he choose to act exactly like this "predetermined portrayal" and gave a moronic response with out suggesting any actual solutions to the problems he believes exist.


pres man wrote:
Benicio Del Espada wrote:
I'm sure the interviewee knew that anything not conforming to the predetermined portrayal Fox demands would not be aired.
So he choose to act exactly like this "predetermined portrayal" and gave a moronic response with out suggesting any actual solutions to the problems he believes exist.

Was this aired? lol


GM Goblin King wrote:
pres man wrote:
Benicio Del Espada wrote:
I'm sure the interviewee knew that anything not conforming to the predetermined portrayal Fox demands would not be aired.
So he choose to act exactly like this "predetermined portrayal" and gave a moronic response with out suggesting any actual solutions to the problems he believes exist.
Was this aired? lol

I hope not, this guy did more to hurt that movement than Fox could ever do. Of course I strongly believe that all news organizations try to find the dumbest individuals in any situation to interview because listening to a well thought out response isn't nearly as entertaining.

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