Taking 10 does not take extra time.
Searching 'doorways or points of interest' does not search 'the room'.
taking 20 on each doorway or point of interest should take 2 minutes.
Taking 20 to search an entire room that is 20x25 would take 40 minutes. (2 minutes for each 5' square)
Taking 10, however, would take 2 minutes (6 seconds for each 5' square)
Really I think the GM was just highlighting the disparity between a simple Take 20 action that has immediate results, and the length of time it takes to actually search a place. The party should be getting annoyed with the waiting time if you're not actually picking up any traps.
Gruuu - actually what I was asking was if the Rogue "takes 10 to check normal areas like hallways and take 20 on doorways or points of interest". Taking 10, how long does it take to "Clear" a hallway 100' long ("no doorways, no points of interest")? and does he need a different perception check to find loot? (and by extention, does he need a different one for hidden doors and another for monsters hiding in ambush)?
It depends on how wide the hall way is. By the rules you are supposed to search every 5ft square independently.
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There is no distinction between a search check for treasures and a search check for a secret door. If you wish to find something hidden, you search one 5-ft square per round making a separate check for each square (probably taking 10). If you perception beats the DC for a given hidden thing, you notice it, regardless of what that thing is.
What that DM did was equivalent to saying that you failed to see the naked princess in the next room (at a whopping DC0) because you said you were "looking for bad guys", which the princess is not.
I don't think the 5' square thing made it into Pathfinder. It used to be part of the Search skill description, but Perception makes no mention of it. Unless the rule is hidden somewhere in the GameMastery Guide, it is gone. You will have a -1 penalty to your perception for every ten feet, and lighting conditions will be an issue in a dungeon, but other than that searching the hallway is just a single move action that you can repeat as much as you like.
As for multiple different rolls, that is silly. You aren't "looking for traps," as there is no such action. You are "searching for stimuli," per the Perception skill. It doesn't matter if that stimuli is a trap, treasure, or naked princess. At most, you could be asked to make a separate check against each.
So I'd say the judge's decision was a combination. Part being stuck in 3.X, part punishing you for constantly searching.
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I don't think the 5' square thing made it into Pathfinder. It used to be part of the Search skill description, but Perception makes no mention of it. Unless the rule is hidden somewhere in the GameMastery Guide, it is gone. You will have a -1 penalty to your perception for every ten feet, and lighting conditions will be an issue in a dungeon, but other than that searching the hallway is just a single move action that you can repeat as much as you like.
As for multiple different rolls, that is silly. You aren't "looking for traps," as there is no such action. You are "searching for stimuli," per the Perception skill. It doesn't matter if that stimuli is a trap, treasure, or naked princess. At most, you could be asked to make a separate check against each.
So I'd say the judge's decision was a combination. Part being stuck in 3.X, part punishing you for constantly searching.
Man, I can't tell you exactly how much I hate the "punishing" attitude. They can defeat your precious traps because they were built for it. Deal.
It is generally thought that searching for hidden things should take longer than non-hidden things, but as written I believe you may be right. It may just be that saying "I look for hidden things" is enough.
As it is, Perception is a reflexive action versus visible things and things that are stealthing. It is a deliberate move action for retrying that reflexive check and searching for hidden things.
This does mean that Trap Spotter is much less useful (only really useful in situations where you wouldn't think to look for traps, such as when reading a book in a library). Namely because you can walk at a normal pace with one move action, and use the other to check for hidden things actively. This would get tiring if done all day (not by RAW, but find me a DM who wouldn't rule this), but not if done during a dungeon (which is where the traps generally are).
wraithstrike - I'm not sure of this. (You said "By the rules you are supposed to search every 5ft square independently".) If I do a perception check on a 5' square, do I miss the secret door in the wall beside it (is the wall part of the 5' square)? But even then, doesn't it only take 2 minutes to check 100' of 5' wide tunnel (taking 10)? and 2 minutes to search a 20' x 25' room (again taking 10)? Does it then take another 2 minutes to check the same room for loot?
The rogue checked a room (taking 10 - 2 minutes). Then took 20 on a body in the room (2 more), and the exit door (total 6 minute to check the room). These would have been Perception 27 results. No rolls - fast in real time, 6 minutes game time. When the party later came back to the room to check see what might have been "overlooked", the Sorcerer (with a 3 perception) then rolled one time to search the room and found the loot that the rogue had missed. The difference appears to me to have been that the Sorcerer rolled a dice.
The door is a part of the wall(or what looks like a wall), and you specifically said to only account for the hallway.
Now as a GM I don't count every 5 foot square. I just do sections of a room at a time or the entire room if it is a small one. Most GM's don't do every square either.In your case with the sorcerer I think the GM was just showing favoritism because you are auto-passing the trap's perception DC or he knows you will do so if one is placed.
I don't think the 5' square thing made it into Pathfinder. It used to be part of the Search skill description, but Perception makes no mention of it. Unless the rule is hidden somewhere in the GameMastery Guide, it is gone. You will have a -1 penalty to your perception for every ten feet, and lighting conditions will be an issue in a dungeon, but other than that searching the hallway is just a single move action that you can repeat as much as you like.
As for multiple different rolls, that is silly. You aren't "looking for traps," as there is no such action. You are "searching for stimuli," per the Perception skill. It doesn't matter if that stimuli is a trap, treasure, or naked princess. At most, you could be asked to make a separate check against each.
So I'd say the judge's decision was a combination. Part being stuck in 3.X, part punishing you for constantly searching.
Here is a key bit of information.
The modifier to a perception check to notice something is
Distance to the source, object, or creature = +1/10 feet
In order to determine the modifier the GM must determine a square for it.
If your character is standing on the far side of a large room or hallway then taking 20 may not work. So even if the "every square" method is not used then you still have to take 20 multiple times in certain areas to ensure you find the trap.
I could not find the "every square" rule, but the modifier rule could still be used against the player depending on the room itself.
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So, how does using perception to "Clear" a hallway work? Rogue is an Elf with a bullseye lantern standing just outside the entry to the tunnel. He takes 10 getting a 27... and has Trapspotter (does this give a second roll?).
interpretation A: He gets a 27 on first and second 5' sq., a 26 on the next third and forth, a 25 on the next two, etc. down to the last 19 and 20 sq where he has a 22 perception. He can locate thing with DCs equal to that Perception.
interpretation B: He gets a 27 on the first 5' sq. and takes a 5' step forward. Next round he does the same thing, checking the 2nd 5' sq. Repeat this until he is in the 20 5' sq. (2 minutes later). he locates things that have a DC of 27 or lower.
interpretation C: Something else....
If a person with trapspotter comes within 10ft of a trap, they get a perception check. This is regardless of whether they've done an explicit check.
Clearing a room would most likely be doing a quick walk around (ensuring that you walk within 10ft of all points) while taking 10, generally taking nor more than a minute even for big rooms.
So, how does using perception to "Clear" a hallway work? Rogue is an Elf with a bullseye lantern standing just outside the entry to the tunnel. He takes 10 getting a 27... and has Trapspotter (does this give a second roll?).
interpretation A: He gets a 27 on first and second 5' sq., a 26 on the next third and forth, a 25 on the next two, etc. down to the last 19 and 20 sq where he has a 22 perception. He can locate thing with DCs equal to that Perception.
interpretation B: He gets a 27 on the first 5' sq. and takes a 5' step forward. Next round he does the same thing, checking the 2nd 5' sq. Repeat this until he is in the 20 5' sq. (2 minutes later). he locates things that have a DC of 27 or lower.
interpretation C: Something else....
The GM rolls secretly for you once you are withing 10 feet of the trap if you have trap spotter. As a player you have to determine where you want to be standing when you search on your own. Just remember the farther away you are from the trap the harder it is to find.
Interpretation A is the one to go with. That is how perception works, but now you have to determine how far you want to move before you make the next check.
PS:Ignore my every square quote earlier since I can't find a rule for it.