Stacking Damage Reduction

[Tribuchet]

I was in an adventure last night against some vampire spawn. Damage reduction played a big part in the encounter.

(We didn't know what we were getting into and most of our blows were bouncing pretty harmlessly off of them. We did prevail, thanks to the rogue with her +1 mithral longsword.)

So, turned out these creatures have DR5/silver. Fair enough. However at one point one of them turned gaseous and attempted escape... and the gaseous form spell has a DR10/magic.

We were scratching our heads, because we didn't really know if the silver and gaseous form DR both were in effect or not.

What were we trying to hit...
- DR10/magic only?
- DR10/magic or silver?
- DR15/magic and silver? (someone suggested adding them *shiver*)

I didn't find it explicit in the rules. We left it at DR10/magic, but curious if anyone knows if there actually is a rule on the books.

[Kierato]

It would have DR10/magic or DR 5/silver depending on what attack hit it.

[Abraham spalding]

Gaseous form specifically replaces your DR with the DR 10/magic.

In other cases where you have more than one form of DR up you should only apply the one that is the highest amount that is effective against the attack.

So if you are attacking with a +2 Cold Iron longsword and your opponent has the following DR types:

5/bludgeoning
10/cold iron
10/evil or silver

You would only apply the 10/evil or silver since it is the highest DR that the weapon doesn't overcome.

If you were using a +3 weapon then you would have applied the 5/bludgeoning since +3 weapons count as both silver and cold iron for the purposes of overcoming DR.

[Jeraa]

Only the best form of damage reduction applies against an attack. So, assuming DR 10/magic, and DR 5/silver:

A normal weapon is affected by DR 10/magic
A magic weapon bypasses DR 10/magic, but then the DR 5/silver comes into play.
A silver, non-magical weapon is affected by DR 10/magic, because that DR is higher than the DR 5/silver one.
A silver, magical weapon bypasses both forms of damage reduction.

[Kierato]

It would only lose it's DR 5/silver if it was supernatural, I can't find where it states whether it is (Ex) or (Su). I am inclined to go with Ex.

[Tribuchet]

Kierato wrote:

It would have DR10/magic or DR 5/silver depending on what attack hit it.

How does the attack itself matter? Reading into it some:

So in your thinking, would the +1 mithral longsword (which counts as both silver and magic) strike against the lesser DR, the DR5/silver?

And maybe the barbarian, who had an ordinary battleaxe, would hit against DR10/magic? Or the Dr5/silver....?

[Kierato]

The +1 mithral longsword would negate both of them. The Battle axe would hit against the higher DR, as Jeraa and Abe said.

[Tribuchet]

Jeraa wrote:

Only the best form of damage reduction applies against an attack. So, assuming DR 10/magic, and DR 5/silver:

A normal weapon is affected by DR 10/magic
A magic weapon bypasses DR 10/magic, but then the DR 5/silver comes into play.
A silver, non-magical weapon is affected by DR 10/magic, because that DR is higher than the DR 5/silver one.
A silver, magical weapon bypasses both forms of damage reduction.

Jeraa, Abraham, Kierato I think your explanation makes sense and appreciate the response. Thanks!

[Stubs McKenzie]

In the vampire's stat block it states that vampires have DR/10 magic AND silver and vampire spawn have DR/5 silver. It states that when a vampire is reduced to 0 hps it turns into its gaseous form and must return to its coffin within 2 hours, or be destroyed. During this time, any damage sustained has no effect, but the vampire is helpless upon return to its coffin. Vampire spawns can become gaseous as vampires do.

This is a specific version of gaseous form, and is not "per the spell", so in your case it should not have been able to be injured further, but also must have been reduced to 0 hps to become gaseous to escape.

As far as DRs listed, if a creatures natural form gives it DR/anything, and it changes form, the new DR/something else over rides the old DR. If the old DR is not based on its form, then I would incorporate it with the AND modifier. A creature that has DR/20 Adamantine as a supernatural ability should not have that disappear by also gaining DR/5 magic.

[azhrei_fje]

Stubs McKenzie wrote:

During this time, any damage sustained has no effect, but the vampire is helpless upon return to its coffin.

I had a vampire villain create his resting place for his coffin inside a large "bubble" in volcanic rock about 3,000 feet in from the edge of a mountain.

The rock was porous enough that he could return to his coffin in gaseous form but just about no one would be able to follow him. And it was far enough that a Locate Object spell used later wouldn't be able to locate his general direction either. :)

[Louis IX]

Thread resurrection and jacking with a thought exercise...

Non-colliding archetypes can be stacked, but what about their DR-related abilities? Take a Drunken Master of the Sacred Mountain:
=> Drunken Master level 20 => DR 3/-
=> Monk of the Sacred Mountain level 20 => DR 4/-

Would those two stack?

Initially, it seems that they don't: Glossary says "If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack."

But does "from more than one source" mean "from different abilities" or "from more than one source of damage"? In the first case, DR from different abilities wouldn't stack but DR against different type of damage would (strange, this one). In the second, DR of the same type gained from different abilities would stack: DR 5/Silver and DR 3/- wouldn't stack, but DR 3/- and DR 4/- would.

Thoughts?

In the same vein, compare the Barbarian finding an Adamantine armor:
=> Barbarian level 20 => DR 5/-
=> Medium adamantine armor => DR 2/-

Relevant bits of rule:

Monk archetypes
Drunken Resilience (Ex): At 13th level, a drunken master gains DR 1/— as long as he has at least 1 point of drunken ki. At 16th level, the DR increases to 2/—. At 19th level, it increases to 3/—. This ability replaces diamond soul.

Adamantine Monk (Ex): At 9th level, a monk of the sacred mountain has muscles so strong and skin so resilient that he gains DR 1/—. This DR increases by 1 for every three levels thereafter. As a swift action, the monk can spend 1 ki point to double his DR until the beginning of his next turn. This ability replaces improved evasion.

Barbarian
At 7th level, a barbarian gains damage reduction. Subtract 1 from the damage the barbarian takes each time she is dealt damage from a weapon or a natural attack. At 10th level, and every three barbarian levels thereafter (13th, 16th, and 19th level), this damage reduction rises by 1 point. Damage reduction can reduce damage to 0 but not below 0.

Adamantine
Armor made from adamantine grants its wearer damage reduction of 1/— if it's light armor, 2/— if it's medium armor, and 3/— if it's heavy armor.

Now, question: a monk of the Sacred Mountain can "double his DR" (not "this DR") by spending a ki point. Does that mean that he could double all his DR? For instance, would a Lycanthrope Monk of the Sacred Mountain with DR 5/Silver gain DR 10/Silver on top of doubling his untyped DR?

Edited, twice.

[Avatarded]

Man I wish we could find an answer to this, as it is the most relevant search result on the googles.

I was wondering about how the Aasimar's favored class bonus to summoner (DR/Evil) stacks with giving the Eidolon the racial trait of DR/Evil, as they are the same type from race/class combination, I would think they would add together as in your examples.

When looking at the rules for "Armor as DR" It expressly states as an example natural armor, and worn armor are two different sources of DR/Armor, but rather than take the highest they are added together and stack for the purpose of determining damage reduction.

This suggests that all same type DR stacks if it is the same DR/Thing.

Paizo wrote:

If a creature is wearing armor and has a natural armor bonus, the creature adds its armor bonus to its natural armor bonus to determine the amount of DR/armor that it has (see Table 5–2).

For instance, if a creature wearing a +2 chain shirt has DR 6/armor is then subject to a barkskin spell cast by a 6th-level druid (gaining a +3 natural armor bonus), its DR becomes DR 9/armor for the duration of the spell.

[Source: Ultimate Combat - Variant Rules]

[Robert Lohse]

azhrei_fje wrote:

I had a vampire villain create his resting place for his coffin inside a large "bubble" in volcanic rock about 3,000 feet in from the edge of a mountain.

The rock was porous enough that he could return to his coffin in gaseous form but just about no one would be able to follow him. And it was far enough that a Locate Object spell used later wouldn't be able to locate his general direction either. :)

So he could return to his coffin in gaseous form but afterwards how would he leave his coffin? From what it sounds like you've trapped your villain in their coffin for eternity with a way for him to return but no way out.

[Nefreet]

Looks like it took 4 years to finally reach the surface again.

[Chemlak]

Nice necro.

And to answer:

Vampire wrote:

Gaseous Form (Su): As a standard action, a vampire can assume gaseous form at will (caster level 5th), but it can remain gaseous indefinitely and has a fly speed of 20 feet with perfect maneuverability.

The vampire assumes gaseous form and leaves the same way they got in. Not hard.