I also like what they did with the tiefling. They had a set of options in a supplement to bring them on par with player characters as well as why would fit into that particular setting.Can you tell me where this information is? I've read other comments about something like this, and I'm curious about this information. Aasimar and Tiefling are the only two "monster" races our group tends to treat as "core" races, so this would be an interesting supplement.
That, and I want to make up a more detailed tiefling foil for an aasimar paladin in my group. :D
It's in the Council of Thieves Player's Guide. Basically, tieflings are still slightly ahead of the core races, but not a full level, so there are a few options on how to balance this. My favorite is the "don't worry about it" one, since I don't think the discrepancy is big enough to be an issue for more than a single level.
My favorite is the "don't worry about it" one, since I don't think the discrepancy is big enough to be an issue for more than a single level.
+1
It's in the Council of Thieves Player's Guide. Basically, tieflings are still slightly ahead of the core races, but not a full level, so there are a few options on how to balance this. My favorite is the "don't worry about it" one, since I don't think the discrepancy is big enough to be an issue for more than a single level.I also like what they did with the tiefling. They had a set of options in a supplement to bring them on par with player characters as well as why would fit into that particular setting.Can you tell me where this information is? I've read other comments about something like this, and I'm curious about this information. Aasimar and Tiefling are the only two "monster" races our group tends to treat as "core" races, so this would be an interesting supplement.
That, and I want to make up a more detailed tiefling foil for an aasimar paladin in my group. :D
Don't worry about it is usually the best option, in my opinion as well. If the setting requires a tiefling then let it be. I do prefer a bit of a mix bowl of races and classes, as a GM, but that's just me. If somebody really wanted to play a monster I would like a good story, it is supposed to be fun for everybody afterall.
I'm just chomping at the bit for the Dhampyr. Is it a template or a race?
This... Template of race?
Inquiring minds want to know. :oP
I'm just chomping at the bit for the Dhampyr. Is it a template or a race?This... Template of race?
Inquiring minds want to know. :oP
Dhampyr appears to be a sort of half-vampire. I think Matthew wants to know if they will be a sub-race of humans or if it will be a template applicable to any race. My guess is that if something like this is in the works, it will be a template, because I'm sure it will be "transmittable" or something along those lines.
My half-faerie dragon, half-elf feels like a second-class character now. You're going to make Astrid'azil'indria'noxamila sad. :(
Sounds drowish. You can't be a faerie dragon surface treehugger elf with such a name.
To the Flesh Pits with you, the alchemists will have a go at you and fleshwarp you to fit your name better!
Edit: Wait a minute! Half faerie dragon? Whiskey Tango Foxtrott! I know elves like to live and don't hold too much with stuffy traditionalism when it comes to having fun, but faerie dragons are about as big as a cat and resemble an overgrown butterfly crossed with a gecko.
His elven parent is giving the elven race a bad rap, you know!
(;-P)
I like the current set-up: Races that would be okay as PC races get the "X characters" treatment, which lets you make X PCs. The GM might want to tweak things a bit by either taking them down half a notch or giving the "normal" characters a little extra, and you won't usually get that many racial feats or PrCs or stuff, but I say that's the price for exoticness (and things like racial feats and the like might just be the little extra normal characters get).
If you want to develop some race further, you can always make up your own stuff - and I'm sure that if no publisher has made books for exotic characters yet, they'll soon do so.
Let's have a "Savage Heroes" line of books! Each starts with the general racial write-up (like the racial entries in the core rulebook), followed by a few ideas on how to make the respective race one of the more common races and suitable for PCs, and then get crunchy: Alternate racial traits, alternate favoured class options, race and region traits, some racial feats, some special equipment, maybe a deity or two.
And, if the race needs it, ideas on how to balance that race with standard races like human and elf.
His elven parent is giving the elven race a bad rap, you know!
She, not he. Art by Beth Trott
His elven parent is giving the elven race a bad rap, you know!
And that's what shapeshift and polymorph were made for! ;)
Somehow this is weird, as my sister's name is Astrid. :)
She, not he. Art by Beth Trott
His elven parent is giving the elven race a bad rap, you know!
So that is where Analee's companion, Folgers, went off to... The little letch. :oP
I also like what they did with the tiefling. They had a set of options in a supplement to bring them on par with player characters as well as why would fit into that particular setting.Can you tell me where this information is? I've read other comments about something like this, and I'm curious about this information. Aasimar and Tiefling are the only two "monster" races our group tends to treat as "core" races, so this would be an interesting supplement.
That, and I want to make up a more detailed tiefling foil for an aasimar paladin in my group. :D
There was an 8 page write up on tieflings in the "The Bastards of Erebus".
They offer 10 different heritages, 100 different minor abilities, and 3 new feats exclusively for tieflings. It really is an nice resource.
If we DO do a "Savage Species" style book some day, and I suspect some day we probably will, expect it to have some language like: "In Golarion, player character monsters should be very rare. Here's some advice on how to integrate an unusual player character monster into a humanocentric campaign."Actually, I could easily see a "Misunderstood Heros Revealed" type book that focused on existing Bestiary races and how those might work in Golarion - extra pluses if it had a few favored class options and advice on how to balance it with core races like the tiefling entry in the Council of Thieves player guide.
I think thats a great idea
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I always wondered about "weakling" monsters. Say a minotaur who is only as strong as a half-orc. Minotaur lite, even, so a player could have some basic minotaur abilities but still level as a normalized PC. If a savage species book is done it could be a neat template idea, a way to weaken any monstrous humanoid to a PC level and label it as driven from it's home and semi-integrated into society. Could also be a nice workaround for lycanthrope to make anthropomorphic humanoids this way and be able to just call them failed wizardry experiments.
I always wondered about "weakling" monsters. Say a minotaur who is only as strong as a half-orc. Minotaur lite, even, so a player could have some basic minotaur abilities but still level as a normalized PC. If a savage species book is done it could be a neat template idea, a way to weaken any monstrous humanoid to a PC level and label it as driven from it's home and semi-integrated into society. Could also be a nice workaround for lycanthrope to make anthropomorphic humanoids this way and be able to just call them failed wizardry experiments.
I made THIS a while back. Is this kind of like what you're talking about?
Something like this is what I'd like to see done as a replacement for savage species. It took a bit of finagling to make this, but I think it would be workable with other races.
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I made THIS a while back. Is this kind of like what you're talking about?
Yeah, and it's not bad at all. I'd love to see this sort of work on a wide scale. I also like the paragon class for the monster its self being optional but available, very spiffy.
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I'm saying that if I'm buying a Bestiary and I'm starting to get the feeling that a significant portion has been intentionally designed to introduce new races into the game, the book's value as a Bestiary start to go down, because when I see "Bestiary" as a GM I'm thinking "new stuff to throw at my players."
I see it slightly differently. As a player, I know I'm not going to get to play an aasimar or a tengu anytime soon, but having 'tengu as PC' in the write-up just makes it *much* easier for me as a GM to strap some Fighter or Rogue or Ranger levels onto that critter chassis, and make a truly memorable encounter.
That 'Tengu as PC' blurb is a shorthand for me to whip up a dozen different Tengu builds to throw at the players, and if it happens to be handy for use making up an actual Tengu PC, for those rare days when we play a 'monsters game' (which, actually, we haven't done since 2nd edition, where we fielded a spelljammer party consisting of a wemic, a minotaur, a xixchil, a centaur, a giff, an ogre, a gnomish giant space werehamster and a half-ogre-magi), that's just gravy.
I love that sort of thing, as I, as a GM, love to strap class levels on to gnolls and orcs and similar 'monster races' to make for more varied encounters. I've used it as a GM tool far more than I've ever seen it used by players.
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for those rare days when we play a 'monsters game' (which, actually, we haven't done since 2nd edition, where we fielded a spelljammer party consisting of a wemic, a minotaur, a xixchil, a centaur, a giff, an ogre, a gnomish giant space werehamster and a half-ogre-magi), that's just gravy.
Set has mentioned these guys enough times that in his heart of hearts I bet he misses them dearly.
;)
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After listening today to some player rant 15 minutes about how much he wants to play a half-demon half-mind flayer with minotaur ancestry and how much does Pathfinder suck because it doesn't have rules for that I am even more convinced that my anti-Savage Species crusade is righteous and justified.My half-faerie dragon, half-elf feels like a second-class character now. You're going to make Astrid'azil'indria'noxamila sad. :(
She sounds very interesting. Could you post something more on her?
She sounds very interesting. Could you post something more on her?After listening today to some player rant 15 minutes about how much he wants to play a half-demon half-mind flayer with minotaur ancestry and how much does Pathfinder suck because it doesn't have rules for that I am even more convinced that my anti-Savage Species crusade is righteous and justified.My half-faerie dragon, half-elf feels like a second-class character now. You're going to make Astrid'azil'indria'noxamila sad. :(
Here's the initial description I gave to the game's DM.
I'm saying that if I'm buying a Bestiary and I'm starting to get the feeling that a significant portion has been intentionally designed to introduce new races into the game, the book's value as a Bestiary start to go down, because when I see "Bestiary" as a GM I'm thinking "new stuff to throw at my players."
I see it slightly differently. As a player, I know I'm not going to get to play an aasimar or a tengu anytime soon, but having 'tengu as PC' in the write-up just makes it *much* easier for me as a GM to strap some Fighter or Rogue or Ranger levels onto that critter chassis, and make a truly memorable encounter.
That 'Tengu as PC' blurb is a shorthand for me to whip up a dozen different Tengu builds to throw at the players, and if it happens to be handy for use making up an actual Tengu PC, for those rare days when we play a 'monsters game' (which, actually, we haven't done since 2nd edition, where we fielded a spelljammer party consisting of a wemic, a minotaur, a xixchil, a centaur, a giff, an ogre, a gnomish giant space werehamster and a half-ogre-magi), that's just gravy.
I love that sort of thing, as I, as a GM, love to strap class levels on to gnolls and orcs and similar 'monster races' to make for more varied encounters. I've used it as a GM tool far more than I've ever seen it used by players.
Ya hit the nail on the Head.
Feel the same way.|
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Here's the initial description I gave to the game's DM.She sounds very interesting. Could you post something more on her?After listening today to some player rant 15 minutes about how much he wants to play a half-demon half-mind flayer with minotaur ancestry and how much does Pathfinder suck because it doesn't have rules for that I am even more convinced that my anti-Savage Species crusade is righteous and justified.My half-faerie dragon, half-elf feels like a second-class character now. You're going to make Astrid'azil'indria'noxamila sad. :(
I love it. She is great. In 2nd Ed. days one of the major NPCs in my game world was Harmandranaxis, an great wyrm faerie dragon who could shapeshift into pixie, but as he was black, so did pixie have black skin and black butterfly wings. Do you use some kind of a template for her? What does half faerie dragon exactly gain?