We're still finishing "Burnt Offerings". One of my characters died for a 50 hp critical from Nualia (1d10+15 x 2, ouch!).
After going back to Sandpoint and back, they discovered the secret door in the shadows/architects room and killed the giant crab.
They now suspect that Thassilonian monuments are the result of work from giant slaves (the huge helmet).
They picked up some thousands thassilonian coins from the hoard and went back to the upper level and entered the Inner sanctum where Malfeshnekor is imprisoned.
Question 1: are thassilonian coins common in varisia? Assuming a 10.000 years timespan, the ones that circulated on the surface should be more or less all in critical conditions so I assume "no". Then what's the market value of the coins in your campaign? What's depicted on the coins? Shiedron rune/Karzoug profile seems logical.
Back to the story. They entered Malfeshnekor's room, and were severely beaten for 2 rounds by a 15x15 feet huge (enlarged) enraged barghest. They immediately retreated closing the stone doors behind them, retrapping the barghest in the room. Rolling a DC 22 Knowledge (planes) they identified the creature as a lower extraplanar lawful-evil being able to cast spells at will.
before they left, Malfeshnekor started knocking at the doors, speaking from behind. I assumed that a INT 18 creature which has been trapped for thousands of years, even if full of rage, should be at least trying to negotiate with the party. Who knows, maybe they're the last chance he has. That was very tricky to manage as possibly Malfeshnekor knows almost eveyrthing about Thassilon, and could be a HUGE spolier source.
I remembered from 1E that the barghest were Lawful, and Malfeshnekor indeed speaks INFERNAL and NOT Abyssal. I also assumed he was some sort of Devil from Gehenna (even if I didn't read The Great Beyond). I weighed my words carefully, but they extracted from him some information on Thassilon, including Karzoug's and Alaznist's names and roles as runelords of Greed and Wrath, confirmation that the empire of thassilon was divided into realms ruled by runelords, and that they used enslaved giants for their cyclopic constructions.
Question: I think i spilled a bit too much, but after all Malfeshnekor is really desperate, why shouldn't he say everything he knows about Thassilon from beyond the doors hoping someone is?
Question: Speaking in INFERNAL with one of the characters (of Chelaxian descent), I encountered a slight discrepancy: why should a DEMON LORD (LADY) such as Lamashtu have a chosen that does not even speak Abyssal, and that is inherently lawful? Where in the great beyond do Barghests live?
Question 3: How did Nualia find Thistletop and what did Erylium know about Thsitletop? After all the dungeon of Wrath is a Bakhrakhanan structure, and Thistletop is a Shalastan structure. How were they connected? Maybe Malfeshnekor was living in the Dungeons of Wrath and then was captured by Karzoug's minions and brought to the huge statue that became Thistletop? Maybe Lamashtu cultists felt the presence of Malfeshnekor and were attracted by Thistetop becouse of the barghest's "unholy aura"?
UP
So many questions, so few answers. :)
1) It's not realistic but I just treat coins as coins, whether they're old or minted yesterday. It's just a lump of gold (silver/copper/platinum) so I figure anything that's not "of the realm" gets melted down and reminted in the form of local currency anyway.
2) No reason for Malfeshnekor not to speak up a bit. I tried to be secretive about the world's history when I started but soon realized that with things like Linguistics suddenly letting the ability for Thassilonian to pop into characters' heads that it's a little unrealistic. So, instead, I've been dropping breadcrumbs of info that give some real information while dropping red herrings to mislead the *players* into thinking they know something that they don't.
3) Dunno whether Barghests are demons or devils and I haven't put much time into Great Beyond either. If they're devils I guess he could have been summoned/trapped or have made a deal he had to stick with? Honestly, in my game, it didn't come up. He ate a town guard's soul and then the party shut the door and went on with their business. He's still there seething and I've been trying to think of a way to let him loose to cause some havok in Sandpoint.
4) (sorry, you forgot a number :) )I think the aura thing is the way to go and I seem to remember that this was hinted at in the book...but it has been a while since I read/played that book.
We're just about to play the raid on Sandpoint. Our Nualia escaped and will be riding the dragon (hey, her final threat was that she'd see Sandpoint burn so what better way than from the back of a red dragon?) Think it's reasonable that she returns to Thistletop and manages to free Big M? I'd like to have him come loping into the town during the raid and start eating people...
We're just about to play the raid on Sandpoint. Our Nualia escaped and will be riding the dragon (hey, her final threat was that she'd see Sandpoint burn so what better way than from the back of a red dragon?) Think it's reasonable that she returns to Thistletop and manages to free Big M? I'd like to have him come loping into the town during the raid and start eating people...
Oh, so evil! And awesome. :-)
So many questions, so few answers. :)
1) It's not realistic but I just treat coins as coins, whether they're old or minted yesterday. It's just a lump of gold (silver/copper/platinum) so I figure anything that's not "of the realm" gets melted down and reminted in the form of local currency anyway.
2) No reason for Malfeshnekor not to speak up a bit. I tried to be secretive about the world's history when I started but soon realized that with things like Linguistics suddenly letting the ability for Thassilonian to pop into characters' heads that it's a little unrealistic. So, instead, I've been dropping breadcrumbs of info that give some real information while dropping red herrings to mislead the *players* into thinking they know something that they don't.
3) Dunno whether Barghests are demons or devils and I haven't put much time into Great Beyond either. If they're devils I guess he could have been summoned/trapped or have made a deal he had to stick with? Honestly, in my game, it didn't come up. He ate a town guard's soul and then the party shut the door and went on with their business. He's still there seething and I've been trying to think of a way to let him loose to cause some havok in Sandpoint.
4) (sorry, you forgot a number :) )I think the aura thing is the way to go and I seem to remember that this was hinted at in the book...but it has been a while since I read/played that book.We're just about to play the raid on Sandpoint. Our Nualia escaped and will be riding the dragon (hey, her final threat was that she'd see Sandpoint burn so what better way than from the back of a red dragon?) Think it's reasonable that she returns to Thistletop and manages to free Big M? I'd like to have him come loping into the town during the raid and start eating people...
Thanks a lot for your comments.
I decided to have Thassilonian coins being a bit larger than current ones, with Karzoug's face on one side and the sihedron rune on the other, yet I haven't decided precisely how to handle them. I will probably let the players use those coins as normal currency in cities like Riddleport or just any large marketplace where hundred of different coinage meet, but if they want to take the time, they could go in Magnimar and look for a museum or some noble interested in ancient coins and make some extra money out of them. We will see.Regarding Malfeshnekor, I haven't really found a convincing reason why he should not speak Abyssal. He's a chosen of her demon goddess, his native realm lies in the Abyss. After reading The Great Beyond paragraph on the barghest realms I am even more convinced he should have Abyssal as first language, and Infernal as secondary one (judging both by the nature of the demiplane AND this monster's history in classic D&D cosmology). I didn't really have to play Malfeshnekor again as the party decided to storm into the room and kill him right away. I had Malfeshnekor use his first round of combat hacking down at the stone door and hinges so that the party could not bind him again in the room by shutting it close (mostly a strategic move). He then made a single attack but he didn't live up to round three. The party scored 124 hp of damage in 2 rounds, blinding him with glitterdust and causing his blink to function at reduced 20% miss chance. Ouch. I wonder if they will be able to handle Xanesha the same way.
The dragon is a nasty idea :) I will definitely steal it should I one day decide to run the adventure again!
Few thoughts...
1) The coins MAY be worth more but a few things to assume. The water washes in on them everyday for 10k years and more than likeley have worn the mint off them so they are just discs of metal that resemble unminted coins. The few who survive said process by being in the dry part of the room may have markings and be worth for collectors but more than likely are not going to be astrinomically more.
2) The barghest according to the background was summoned in at the very end of the empire and thats why hes stuck. They never got around to getting anything out of him... that includes both info and spell usage (whatever that may be). However it is safe to assume he only knows small parts of the history as he is not of the prime plane and upon arrival got stuck. To counterbalance this point he is a greater barghest and may have been on the priime before eating people so he has any info you feel comfortable giving the Pcs as such.
These are just the thoughts I had on the top of my head. In the end my pcs got whipped by him but retreated and never looked back so I didnt need to deal with it. As for the coins I just loosely called them coins gave them what their current value would be and moved on. Hope that helps.
Let us know how Xanesha turned out. And I'm impressed that they managed to handle the barghest - it would've completely annihilated my players if they'd stayed (though that would in part by due to simultaneous ambush by Nualia - "I thought I could use your incorrigible curiosity for something - and look, you found my promised for me.")
Few thoughts...
1) The coins MAY be worth more but a few things to assume. The water washes in on them everyday for 10k years and more than likeley have worn the mint off them so they are just discs of metal that resemble unminted coins. The few who survive said process by being in the dry part of the room may have markings and be worth for collectors but more than likely are not going to be astrinomically more.
2) The barghest according to the background was summoned in at the very end of the empire and thats why hes stuck. They never got around to getting anything out of him... that includes both info and spell usage (whatever that may be). However it is safe to assume he only knows small parts of the history as he is not of the prime plane and upon arrival got stuck. To counterbalance this point he is a greater barghest and may have been on the priime before eating people so he has any info you feel comfortable giving the Pcs as such.These are just the thoughts I had on the top of my head. In the end my pcs got whipped by him but retreated and never looked back so I didnt need to deal with it. As for the coins I just loosely called them coins gave them what their current value would be and moved on. Hope that helps.
Other than erasing the mint, I assume salt could have encrusted some of the coins in big white blocks that they had to be chipped from the underwater floor. Some of the preservative magic could have been still active, however so they didn't dissolve entirely. I judge maybe 5% of the coins retrieved could be sold as antiquities, yet one have to find the right market. One of my players is a Jeggare, so she certainly know how to handle the sale.
I didn't really think about it this way regarding the barghest. Luckily I didn't reveal too much, just the name of alaznist and karzoug and taht they were masters of the magic of greed and wrath. They didn't seem to catch the "seven sins" concept, strangely.
Let us know how Xanesha turned out. And I'm impressed that they managed to handle the barghest - it would've completely annihilated my players if they'd stayed (though that would in part by due to simultaneous ambush by Nualia - "I thought I could use your incorrigible curiosity for something - and look, you found my promised for me.")
The barghest was tough, very tough: elarged, strenghtened, invisible and blinking he was supposed to give them tough fight. Yet he was also desperate so I thought his first action when the doors opened for the second time was to secure them open, it is not clearly stated but I assume the sihedron disc used to open the portal had something to do with the binding effect. The first attack went to one of the hinges, then I planned to beat the party to pulp with a few melee attacks. Yet my players are awfully (too much for my taste I admit) technical and they have the morbid obsession of optimizing and minmaxing every single game mechanic to their use. They made it clear however, that for them roleplay was good out of combat, but when mechanics are involved, they wanted to play just technical, haggling to every single bonus that could be found. When they opened the doors, the caster was ready with a glitterdust spell, and the bard with blindness. As soon as the summoner's eidolon opened the door, Malfeshnekor, already beefed up, started to destroy the left stone door. In rapid sequence the glitterdust spell was cast, reducing the blink effect to a 20% miss chance, AND bliding the barghest. The barbarian, power attacking with nualia's magical bastard sword, scored a critical that dealt 40 hp in a single blow. The summoner's eidolon with four arms attacked and landed another vicious serie of blows, then it was the wizard's magic missile, the paladin smite, and another spell of blindness.
Malfeshnekor reacted the following round but being blind, he missed with bite and claw, landing a 13 hp claw attack to the barbarian. The round ended with the barghest dead. Even so beefed up he couldn't resist a party of 5 plus Lyrie and the eidolon.The only real tough fight they faced was actually Kouvus on the stair in the dungeon of wrath. I faced the barbarian and brought him below 0 hp, then the rest of the party retreated because they were in a straight line in the corridor and they suffered penalties from cover... it was an interesting fight indeed.
I do understand their affection for rule lawyering, yet this thing is getting a bit out of hand. I should definitely give them a lesson, and Xanesha looks like an interesting teacher ehe.
I have the opposite problem, as my players are almost exclusively new so I have to subtly help them pick up tactics, and synergies, and other effective strategies and build options that work for them. If they ever get all of it down I'm probably in trouble :P
We're still finishing "Burnt Offerings". One of my characters died for a 50 hp critical from Nualia (1d10+15 x 2, ouch!).
After going back to Sandpoint and back, they discovered the secret door in the shadows/architects room and killed the giant crab.
They now suspect that Thassilonian monuments are the result of work from giant slaves (the huge helmet).
They picked up some thousands thassilonian coins from the hoard and went back to the upper level and entered the Inner sanctum where Malfeshnekor is imprisoned.Question 1: are thassilonian coins common in varisia? Assuming a 10.000 years timespan, the ones that circulated on the surface should be more or less all in critical conditions so I assume "no". Then what's the market value of the coins in your campaign? What's depicted on the coins? Shiedron rune/Karzoug profile seems logical.
Back to the story. They entered Malfeshnekor's room, and were severely beaten for 2 rounds by a 15x15 feet huge (enlarged) enraged barghest. They immediately retreated closing the stone doors behind them, retrapping the barghest in the room. Rolling a DC 22 Knowledge (planes) they identified the creature as a lower extraplanar lawful-evil being able to cast spells at will.
before they left, Malfeshnekor started knocking at the doors, speaking from behind. I assumed that a INT 18 creature which has been trapped for thousands of years, even if full of rage, should be at least trying to negotiate with the party. Who knows, maybe they're the last chance he has. That was very tricky to manage as possibly Malfeshnekor knows almost eveyrthing about Thassilon, and could be a HUGE spolier source.I remembered from 1E that the barghest were Lawful, and Malfeshnekor indeed speaks INFERNAL and NOT Abyssal. I also assumed he was some sort of Devil from Gehenna (even if I didn't read The Great Beyond). I weighed my words carefully, but they extracted from him some information on Thassilon, including Karzoug's and Alaznist's names and roles as runelords of Greed and Wrath,...
For the coins, I treated them as the equivalent to the Greek Drachma's. A good representive of the old coins can fetch anywhere from 900 to 9k us dollars. While the coins are very valuable.. the party rogue realized that dumping all the coins at once would flood the market and drop the value. So the party is currently going through the coins, making sets and planning to sell them off slowly. I rather expected that, so it allowed me to give them a fairly nice treasure but not give them too much all at once.