While running an adventure, my group ran into a couple of problems with traps. To me, traps are designed to be hidden from view, and it takes a trained eye to even look for the signs of one. Now, under the description of the perception skill, it states that most perception checks are reactive, and are used without an action. That would mean that whenever someone comes within sight of a trap, they would get a perception check to spot it. If that were the case though, why would there be a special rogue talent that allows them to automatically get a perception check to find traps within 10'? If they could get a check as soon as the trap is within view anyways, that makes the talent useless.
If I am interpreting the rules in a strange way, please correct me.
This may not be exactly how the rule is written, but what I's argue is that it's more of a difference in mindsets -- Rogues by nature are suspicious, less trusting folk. Furthermore, their senses are attuned to such things, and it's almost instinctive, or at least intuitive, when they notice that "Something isn't quite right".
Now that's the rationale for the talent. In terms of game mechanics, I see your point, but the list of perception modifiers DOES say that for traps, it "Varies by trap", and ad a DM I'd use that as justification for taking into account the difference between rogues and other characters. Perhaps OOC that means allowing Rogues to move at a regular pace and still make checks, while others have to go slower in order to check for traps.
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I'd say it varies by trap because some traps leave obvious signs and some don't.
For example, a self-resetting trap might have bloodstains around it, or fresh corpses or old bones depending on the specifics of the dungeon. That would definitely be worth giving the players a perception check IMO.
Another trap that triggers a curse, or is one use, might not leave any grisly evidence behind.
A falling block trap might leave marks on the wall where it's worn them smooth through years of sliding past them.
Or the master of the dungeon might come by every few years and remove any wear signs with a good sculpt stone spell.
So much of it has to do with the specifics of where, when, why, who, and how, that they really couldn't give you a flat yes or no on most traps.
As far as the rogue mindset... well, after the first trap, most all my players become super paranoid about finding another one. Though I generally tend to make mine really, really mean.
I'd say the rogue ability comes more from *gee, this would be a good place to set a trap... I'd better give it the once-over* rather than *every step I take could set off a trap* since that's more the mindset any player would have in that setting.
Personally, I wouldn't distinguish between rogues and non-rogues unless the rogue had that ability, otherwise that ability becomes less useful. Also, nothing is more tedious than players constantly saying *I'm making a perception roll. I'm looking for traps. Do I see anything?*
So give em some they can see, and some they can't. Have fun with it.
And now I have to talk about my favorite trap.
My players were on a quest to recover an ancient elven relic from a dungeon. Many had tried, none had survived. The relic, btw, was the bow from the dnd cartoon.
Once they got past the ruins of the upper level, they found a t intersection with a doorway in front of them. The door opened up into a large room that sloped steeply downward. At the bottom of the slope was a large pool, and on the far side of it was the wall, and a small mound of dirt with a pedestal. Atop this pedestal was a glowing bow. As they started down the slope, they heard a creaking noise from the walls. They ignored it and kept walking. About halfway down the slope, one of the activates a trap that turned the slope completely flat and they started sliding downwards.
Well, the creaking noises they heard originally was a second trap that had a three round delay. *This denied them reflex saves, as acid began sprinkling down on them from above. The acid also increased the slope acrobatics dc by 5.
One party member made it to the top *the monk* and tried to throw a rope down to the fighter. The look on the fighters face when the acid dissolved the rope was priceless!
The next best look was from the monk. Once everyone had been pulled out of the room, he went down and checked out the pedestal only to discover that the *bow* was just carved stone and a magical illusion.
If I had opted to go up another cr level or two by raising the acid damage, I don't think they would have made it without a dm roll fudge :P
@magicdealer
Yeah, I see your point regarding what the actual frame of reference is, but the poitn remains that the explanation is that the rogue just thinks differently, and the in-game mechanics still seems a bit nebulous and up to the DM.
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Hmm... I was about to argue one way, but after reading more into the traps information, I'm going to have to argue a different way :p
The in-game mechanics of traps are nebulous but you can find guidance in the section about creating traps and sample traps on page 416. The more custom you get, the more you have to ad hoc stuff, but that's just dm territory.
On pg 416, under type - mechanical, you find the following information. creatures that succeed on a perception check detect a trap before it is triggered. The dc of this check depends on the trap itself. *more to come about this.
Basically, it says there that they get a perception check before the trap goes off. I imagine this to be *foot about to land on the trigger plate* or *arm about to set off the proximity trigger*.
Meaning that the only character who would normally get a perception check is the one who is about to trigger the trap.
A rogue with the trapfinding ability, or whatever it's called, can make that check from 10 ft away. This lets him/her comb a usable walkway for traps much faster, as well as being able to do so without having to literally walk on top of the land mine.
While you can give out visual clues for blood on the ground, bones, that would hint at a trap, it looks to me that sans clues which would tell smart players to stop moving and scan the room, normally you have to be about to trigger it to get a perception roll against it.
Magical traps have the same entry about detection.
Huh. Well, this'll be changing how I do traps in the future.
Good catch -- and yeah, that definitely does render the Rogue's ability useful.
All right, thanks guys. That really clears up the issue. Thanks a bundle for the help.