I was tossing around ideas in my head for how to continue my campaign after my players finish Curse of the Crimson Throne. At that point, they'll be out of the "sweet spot," and I also don't know if my GMing skills are up to running a higher level campaign. One of the ideas I had was to "reset" the characters to a lower level and continue the campaign from there. The simplest way to make this work is to use different character, but then it's more like a new campaign than a continuation of the old one.
Some ideas I had (I don't claim that any are particularly good):
- Travel to some other location (another plane or planet?) where the "average power level" is much higher and therefore reducing their level keeps them in line.
- The party suffers a TPK and resurrection goes horribly wrong, reducing their level drastically.
- The party wakes up in a distant location, low-level and with a month/year/decade of memories missing.
Some questions:
Do you think any of those are good ideas? Do you have any ideas of your own? Would you hate your GM if he pulled that crap on you?
Personally, I would hate it if my GM pulled stuff like that on me. When a campaign has run its course in my group, we retire the characters and start a new game in the same world (if we like it). Our previous characters are NPCs that are still running arround doing things, like running organizations/kingdoms. They become background flavor. The party may meet them, or some of the same NPCs as the previous game. This way, the world expands and the characters still live with their stories told, but new stories are being told at the levels that we want to play. Lets face it, by the time you hit lvl 15 you can start crushing kingdoms in most game worlds.
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I can't really speak to this as a GM, I just don't have enough experience at it yet. But as a player I think I'd be bothered by any of those scenarios if they GM did it out of the blue. I'd be more comfortable with it if he or she discussed the idea with the players first. Loosing levels always kinda sucks to some degree, but if your in on the decision it's a bit more tolerable. Once you get too high of level it kinda looses some of its fun anyway.
I think the group that I play with would, if the reasons were sound, be willing to either loose some levels or role up lower level characters. But, obviously, your group may be entirely unlike mine.
If a dm did something like this to me i'd probably get up from the table and go home. That kind of nonsense deus ex is just plain garbage to me.
If you dont want to continue the campaign, dont, start a new one. But to cut levels out of existing characters just because you dont want to run a high level game is not likely to go over well. What are they going to do, level up the same characters again? I for one take alot of inspiration for how i play the character from the class/race/stats of the class. I would not want to go up through the same levels with the same class again. I would want to do something new, or continue the character from where it was. Doing it over again is not an option for me.
If you are interested in continuing the campaign world, one suggestion i have used is the players create new characters that are the offspring of their old ones. This ties the characters to the previous story (offering similar hooks and such), and allow for a sensible way to start at low levels again. In addition, if the player just played 16 levels as a rogue, and wants to do something different, there is no reason the daughter of a rogue cant be a monk (in fact it might create some interesting roleplay with dear old mom.
If you want to continue the campaign, continue the campaign. Don't rewind it.
You could follow up on loose ends in the Campaign. (Continued in spoilers)
1. Sorshen's legacy: Ileosa found some of Sorshen's stuff, and while Ileosa was defeated, her actions quickened the return of the Runelord of Lust - who happens to be one of the two most powerful among the Runelords. She'll quickly gather an army of the depraved and enthralled (or both) to get back to her feet (figuratively) and recreate Thassalion - but better and more suited to her needs.
Needless to say, the heroes of Korvosa need to stop it
2. Kazavon: They got the crown of fangs, but there's more to Kazavon than his teeth. Even worse, the Zon-Kuthite have gathered most, maybe all of his bodyparts/artefacts, and they can already unleash all kinds of hell with what they already have - and they want it all!
best continuation i'd ever seen was one where orignal party all retired and we got to play the kids of the original memebers. didn't have to be alike at all, but the story was still there
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Fanguad, I think the push-back you're getting here is a demonstration that a lot of players are attached to their characters first and foremost, and to the campaign after that.
I think you'll receive a more positive reaction if you present the situation to your players and ask for their input. You have some good ideas there: which do they like best?
Kolokotroni's and Jason's suggestion is a great one: either the children or padawans of the original characters. (And if somebody wanted to play her original character, level-drained down to an appropriate strength, adventuring with her old colleagues' students, then that might work, too.)
If you knock down the PCs' levels, you'll also want to steal a lot of their gear.
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Do you think any of those are good ideas? Do you have any ideas of your own? Would you hate your GM if he pulled that crap on you?
I'm not going to incinerate you for having the idea, but I'll side with others -- it probably wouldn't be fun or fulfilling for your players if you went down that road.
A much more satisfying continuation is to, as others suggested, advance the timeline a bit (10 years? 5 years?), and let the players all submit a plan before-hand of what their PCs would have done after the end of CoCT. Use that as a basis for some background material, and then let them start new PCs (perhaps at a mid-level if you don't want to start over completely), possible as successors (or even offspring) of the previous party.
To keep it fresh, I'd probably set the action a bit off-map of the CoCT region, but close enough that they can use some of the world-knowledge they've absorbed in the AP.
Sounds like the E6 play style was built with you in mind. Not necessarily 6th level, but try "freezing" the level progression and handing out smaller bonuses from here on out.
I would walk away from a game where the GM did some of the things you suggest in the first post. Especially the memory loss.
I'd be very upset (unless everyone agreed to the change). PCs are very sacrosanct in and of themselves.
I'd say retire and start anew. Sometimes, it makes sense that the characters stop their hair-raising adventures and sit back for a quiet life, maybe guarding the village that they saved, etc.
Using them as NPCs/mentors/local leaders is a nice touch, and adds continuity, and, if you ever feel comfy running a higher level game, it keeps them ready to come out of retirement to save the (location) from the big, high-level threat of (monster/plane/evil kingdom).
I've played through Temple of Elemental Evil twice once as a player, once as a DM, and started a third, and it's a bit of tradition to use the old PCs as the leaders of the village (i.e. the fighter and wizard are building a keep, the cleric is at the church, etc.). Kind of goes back to the fact that all of those characters are likely PCs from Gygax's game.
Offspring are another good choice for continuity. Or you can start a new campaign in an entirely different part of the same world. Making new characters is fun, and a new place to explore can work, too.
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As a player I'd probably prefer to retire my character and start a new one than reset an old one. There's nothing wrong with starting a new campaign in Korvosa, with either legacy player characters (kids/apprentices/associates/fans of the original party) or starting completely fresh, with players starting in a Korvosa changed by the original group's actions. Discuss with your players what their old players got up to after the end of the CotCT and integrate it into the campaign timeline. Players love their characters first and the setting second, but if their characters effect the setting then the gulf shrinks.
Freeze advancement at 6, 8, 10, 14, whatever. Pick what you think of as the limit of the sweet spot and end PC progression there. They can continue to amass wealth and victories but they've effectively hit the campaigns equivalent of level 20.
As their massed wealth increases you can probably increase the max CR of encounters some.
Give their core characters stuff to do like manage the kingdom, let them run the henchmen and cohorts of the the big guys.
Do a time shift so that 20+ years have advanced and the players can play the children of their former PCs. Hell Dad's probably willing to loan some of his old gear even.
Thanks for the input all. I tried to think of it from a player perspective, but I've had some really awesome GMs who were able to pull off difficult things like reset endings, so I'm probably more trusting than most (as well as not being that good of a GM).
It sounds like the general consensus is that a continuation of the campaign with the same characters (but lower level) isn't feasible, although there are other ways to continue the "spirit" of the campaign.
Thanks for the input all. I tried to think of it from a player perspective, but I've had some really awesome GMs who were able to pull off difficult things like reset endings, so I'm probably more trusting than most (as well as not being that good of a GM).
It sounds like the general consensus is that a continuation of the campaign with the same characters (but lower level) isn't feasible, although there are other ways to continue the "spirit" of the campaign.
I'd say it's feasible, but I think if you were to do it, talk to your players first and tell them. Don't necessarily tell them how, or what would be coming up from it though. Just tell them "Hey guys, I was thinking it might be fun to continue with these same characters, but high level play is too complicated to keep it fun. I had some ideas of how to continue, but it would include dropping your characters' levels to [insert target level here]. Would you guys be interested, or would you rather we continue the story in some other way?"
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What I personally like to do and see in a game like this is "retire" the characters, make new ones, but have it set in the same world and have the new character be inspired by the lore of the old ones going out to adventure or you could have them be reincarnations of the old characters, or just relatives.