Hate Reincarnate?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Silver Crusade

I disagree.

We should not reincarnate any hate.

Let love and understanding flourish instead.


Although it really never comes into real play the best thing about the spell is that it works even if you have died from old age.
Ah...the joys of 1ed ghosts...

Dark Archive

Dork Lord wrote:
I think it's an interesting spell that could offer some interesting RP but I'd not allow it to be cast on a good 80% of my characters.

As a player, I find this an odd stance. I totally understand it as a character preference, as my current PC would be *pissed* if he came back as anything but himself (he's noble-born), but as a player, I think it'd be fun.

So, I'd totally go for it. We've already had two characters (both human) who've come back as a Half-Orc and an Elf respectively and it's brought some interesting RP for them.

Liberty's Edge

I was looking over the 1st edition D&D reincarnation table. That one pretty much eliminated using that character as a PC. Level 12 fighter is now a 1/4 HD raccoon. I like the Pathfinder version much better ; ) keeps them playable! Just adds a bit of roleplaying challenge.

But the 1st ed one did have Pixie, which is a magically powerful fey. That would be a fun option.


Sheboygen wrote:
Dork Lord wrote:
Good words.

+1, again.

I don't do this often, but I'm going to go for a point-by-point talky-talk. Here goes. This is directed at Madcap, in a very particular, rigid order (also, I'm starting to feel like this discussion belongs in another thread):

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **...

Agreed, let's spoiler this so that others (who are actually doing the right discussion) need not look upon it and be distracted.

On the mircaulousness of miracles:

Spoiler:
Are you serious? 5450 gold is out of the freaking ballpark when compared to a 2 dollar movie at blockbuster. It's like the medical bill from hell. Not to mention how rare a diamond is, and having to actually lower their cost by grinding them up to bring your buddy back to life... Technically you'd need a lot more than 5000 gp of diamonds ground into dust.

Clerics are granted divine power from their god. Why? To do stuff. To assist the locals and further their deity's power. Now just assuming here that those diamonds (those hundreds of thousands of gp of potential diamonds... OK I'll stop) are being sacrificed to their god, I might see some reason for the cleric to do this... IF resurrecting the guy would serve their deity's ends. People with the power to bring someone back from the dead should NEVER be regulated to healbot duty. They have their own things to do, 450 gp is chump change for these guys, all in all it makes no sense from an economic standpoint. They'd be better off converting the guy to their order before he was resurrected. The fact that you're comparing a living saint to an order to a blockbuster employee says a lot about what you're missing: A solid gold roleplaying opportunity.

Concerning high-level NPCs:

Spoiler:
Why should those 1 to 2 people in a large city have no story behind their ascension into- let's face it- partial godhood? It's not asking a lot from the DM, and it gives the players a chance to interact with some powerful people for a change. Imagine if the churches in England had been able to do this stuff. You think they would just give out miracles freely? Maybe to an extent. But bringing some rich shmuck who fell on a sword back to life? Maybe only the pope is allowed to do it. Death shouldn't be a speed bump to your players. Was getting to high levels really so easy for these NPCs? If it was for all of them, maybe your players won't be taking the threats you throw at them at high levels very seriously either. I mean if faceless entity the cleric got to it, it's gotta be easy.

On denying access to magic:

Spoiler:
Take this from the cleric's perspective. He wants more people to worship his deity. Puzzled he sits quietly scheming as five men walk into his temple, one clearly wearing the symbol of another deity, and say their friend is dead and he needs resurrected. They have a bunch of money and diamond dust (GAH) as a sacrifice. These guys look powerful. Why not use them to spread the strength of your god's deeds? Why not use them to recruit more followers? I mean, this cleric himself is pretty bad, right? Minimum 15 wisdom. He knows his way around the block. His cut in this should be bigger than a simple merchants, I mean what he's selling not a lot of people can afford to buy. Instead, he has the fighter swear a solemn oath to proclaim their future feats of heroism in his god's name. Simple, right? They get on with it, but now you have an additional complication. The cleric isn't a member of the party, after all. He's probably filthy rich anyway. For his character to WANT to help your characters, he needs a motive, more than "I want money", especially if he's a holy man.

On my example:

Spoiler:
It was pedantic and stupid, but it was an example of him using his spells more productively than resurrecting Jimbob the barbarian. Even stealing for such a good purpose might be pardonned, especially if some of the dust was to "disappear" as part of the divine miracle of translocation, and reappear in the church's coffers. The adventurers are clearly in this example not cool enough to command a lot of respect from the populace, or they can't resurrect people because their cleric is too low. Yeah the cleric can solve world hunger, but he can also fund that brand new magic weapon "demonslayer" the pope has been working on. How does just bringing back some moron from the dead benefit him, besides some pocket change, compared to the component of the spell?

I'll be honest:

Spoiler:
These are my "methods" of running NPCs in my games. I find that complicating these things makes them seem less like a process and more like a narrative, which my players like. Obviously you CAN relegate your clerics to selling their spells for cash, but I think it's one of the most boring things you can do with magic users in a game.

Liberty's Edge

Madcap Storm King wrote:
These are my "methods" of running NPCs in my games. I find that complicating these things makes them seem less like a process and more like a narrative, which my players like. Obviously you CAN relegate your clerics to selling their spells for cash, but I think it's one of the most boring things you can do with magic users in a game.

That's fine, it comes down to a difference of playstyle, but I tend to play Pathfinder/3.5 as it's advertised: get a reason to find a hole, find said hole, kill whatever is in it, take its stuff, sell it in town and move on to a bigger town; occasional improv acting in between spurts of violence - I let pre-published settings and adventures tell me what the NPCs motivations are, if they have any at all - I couldn't care less what some aging Cleric of Huff'n'Puff the God of Marshmallows thinks, not unless he's going to be a major part of the game's plot.

Regardless of different playstyles, none of our discourse has done anything to change the fact that Reincarnate sucks.

Also, back on topic: Reincarnate sucks.


Actually another player and I were discussing this last week.
We decided that if you were to be reincarnated, and had an item allowing a permanent alter self effect to look like your old self, it was advantageous in every single instance, except inside antimagic fields, or when you come back as a Kobold, and honestly the Kobold isn't that bad for a Rogue even.

Personally I love using it as a player, though it's most interesting when the GM allows older tables, or interesting circumstances (like a paladin/cleric who is extremely devout having their reincarnation chart fudged by their deity).


A kobold is a small sized creature with a speed of 30. Best of both worlds?


Sheboygen wrote:
Madcap Storm King wrote:
These are my "methods" of running NPCs in my games. I find that complicating these things makes them seem less like a process and more like a narrative, which my players like. Obviously you CAN relegate your clerics to selling their spells for cash, but I think it's one of the most boring things you can do with magic users in a game.
That's fine, it comes down to a difference of playstyle, but I tend to play Pathfinder/3.5 as it's advertised: get a reason to find a hole, find said hole, kill whatever is in it, take its stuff, sell it in town and move on to a bigger town; occasional improv acting in between spurts of violence - I let pre-published settings and adventures tell me what the NPCs motivations are, if they have any at all - I couldn't care less what some aging Cleric of Huff'n'Puff the God of Marshmallows thinks, not unless he's going to be a major part of the game's plot.

And that's the difference. I have a lot of roleplay and like to have my players fight for a reason other than gaining money (But for some reason everyone they kill is rich >:D). Just this session they came upon the BBEG, and she made the druid question his faith. Just for a second. It was a great scene, and one that I hope I can do as well as in the future!

Quote:

Regardless of different playstyles, none of our discourse has done anything to change the fact that Reincarnate sucks.

Also, back on topic: Reincarnate sucks. [/spoiler]

I dunno. I'm in the group that sometimes makes new characters when they die. So reincarnate is kinda like doing that. I usually make flexible enough builds that they can work even with a shitty stat dump.

Then again I've had like no legitimate character deaths, so I guess I wouldn't know.

Maybe I should kill one of my party off at high level. That would create some legitimate drama.

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