Reading the Animal Companion section of the PRD, Druid (search for Animal Choices, 2nd hit), the text says "Instead of taking the listed benefit at 4th or 7th level, you can instead choose to increase the companion's Dexterity and Constitution by 2."
What exactly is meant by the listed benefit? Is it all the items in the 4th (or 7th) Level Advancement line? Just the Stat changes?, etc.
I am having a conversation with someone on how we handle this and would like some thoughts.
thanks,
-- david
Papa.DRB
Any animal companion you get lists advantages gained at either level 4 or level 7 (depending on companion)
These can be an increase in size, the gaining of abilities like Grab and Pounce, and Stat increases. These increases are listed under the animal companion choice, not on the advancement chart.
In 9/10 cases, I would say taking a +2 to 2 stats is going to be the inferior choice.
So, if I take the +2 to two stats for an animal companion, it loses *all* the advantages on the xth Level Advancement line.
For instance, and Ape could choose at 4th level either:
1) +2 to Dex and Con
** OR **
2) 4th-Level Advancement: Size Large; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6), 2 claws (1d6); Ability Scores Str +8 Dex –2, Con +4.
Right?
-- david
Papa.DRB
So, if I take the +2 to two stats for an animal companion, it loses *all* the advantages on the xth Level Advancement line.
For instance, and Ape could choose at 4th level either:
1) +2 to Dex and Con
** OR **
2) 4th-Level Advancement: Size Large; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6), 2 claws (1d6); Ability Scores Str +8 Dex –2, Con +4.Right?
-- david
Papa.DRB
correct, you lose all of that. That is basically tacked on if you expect your bigger badder pet to not fit in the dungeon.
On the subject of Animal Companions... The Ranger can take a "Cat, Small" but not "Cat, Large". I wanted a Leopard, but the "Cat, Small" is clearly a Cheetah (It gains Sprint instead of Grab, Pounce, and Rake (1d3)). Does anyone think a Leopard and a Cheetah are about the same as far as balance is concerned?
On the subject of Animal Companions... The Ranger can take a "Cat, Small" but not "Cat, Large". I wanted a Leopard, but the "Cat, Small" is clearly a Cheetah (It gains Sprint instead of Grab, Pounce, and Rake (1d3)). Does anyone think a Leopard and a Cheetah are about the same as far as balance is concerned?
what exactly are you asking? They are identical in terms of the rules.
"Cat, Small (Cheetah, Leopard)
Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 50 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4 plus trip), 2 claws (1d2); Ability Scores Str 12, Dex 21, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
4th-Level Advancement: Size Medium; Attack bite (1d6 plus trip), 2 claws (1d3); Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +2; Special Qualities sprint. "
you use the same stats whether you have a cheetah or a leopard...
On the subject of Animal Companions... The Ranger can take a "Cat, Small" but not "Cat, Large". I wanted a Leopard, but the "Cat, Small" is clearly a Cheetah (It gains Sprint instead of Grab, Pounce, and Rake (1d3)). Does anyone think a Leopard and a Cheetah are about the same as far as balance is concerned?what exactly are you asking? They are identical in terms of the rules.
"Cat, Small (Cheetah, Leopard)
Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 50 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4 plus trip), 2 claws (1d2); Ability Scores Str 12, Dex 21, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
4th-Level Advancement: Size Medium; Attack bite (1d6 plus trip), 2 claws (1d3); Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +2; Special Qualities sprint. "
you use the same stats whether you have a cheetah or a leopard...
oh wait did you mean instead of a big cat? (lion or tiger?)
In almost every situation the big cat is hands down better in my opinion. I am not certain why the ranger list is limited as it is, i think its for flavor reasons, but its definitely better to have a big cat animal companion in combat.
The Cat, Small is both the Leopard and the Cheetah (so you can pick, though mechanically they are identical when selected as animal companions)
This does mean that a Leopard selected as an animal companion gets sprint, gets no pounce, or climb movement etc.
Yes, weird.
In almost every situation the big cat is hands down better in my opinion. I am not certain why the ranger list is limited as it is, i think its for flavor reasons, but its definitely better to have a big cat animal companion in combat.
At levels 1-3 it's very close but I would put the small cat ahead. They have the same # of attacks and HP. The large cat does 1 more HP damage on average with each hit, while the small cat gets trip, a better AC, better to hit, and faster movement.
From levels 4-6 the small cat is the clear winner. It now does more damage, has a better to hit, more HP, better AC, trip, faster movement, and sprint.
From levels 7+ the large cat overtakes the small cat for a number of reason.
I guess it could be a house rule. Sprint and a 50' speed swapped for Pounce, Grab, Rake (1d3) and a 30' speed and 20' climb? Probably not a fair trade (although they are worth the same XP in the Bestiary)
Any animal companion you get lists advantages gained at either level 4 or level 7 (depending on companion)
These can be an increase in size, the gaining of abilities like Grab and Pounce, and Stat increases. These increases are listed under the animal companion choice, not on the advancement chart.
In 9/10 cases, I would say taking a +2 to 2 stats is going to be the inferior choice.
Agreed. I do like the idea keeping the small viper small to boost it's poison DC, but typically the larger version of the animal is much better.
Agreed. I do like the idea keeping the small viper small to boost it's poison DC, but typically the larger version of the animal is much better.Any animal companion you get lists advantages gained at either level 4 or level 7 (depending on companion)
These can be an increase in size, the gaining of abilities like Grab and Pounce, and Stat increases. These increases are listed under the animal companion choice, not on the advancement chart.
In 9/10 cases, I would say taking a +2 to 2 stats is going to be the inferior choice.
Birds and Dire Rats benefit similarly.