| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Ahhh, a question that has spawned many debates in the long history of thieves/rogues looking for traps, ever since the good old days of the FRT roll (Find/Remove Traps).
The RAW answer is that you have to actually look for a trap.
I see the confusion though. Under the Perception skill, it says most perception checks are reactionary, and I truly cannot find anything in the Pathfinder core book that says searching for traps is an exception.
But your point about the Trap Spotter talent is well-made.
So, if your rogue is not searching for the trap, and he doesn't have the Trap Spotter talent, he's going to fall into them like any other fool blundering around in dangerous dungeons. Dwarves, of coures, get a passive roll to spot any stonework traps, but otherwise, you must search to find a trap.
Now, your real question about slowing down the whole game looking for traps is one of endless contention, and ultimately up to the DM.
When I DM, it is sufficient for the rogue to say "I'm looking for traps as we go through this place". After that, I assume he's looking until he says otherwise. It's what rogues do.
It's worth noting that searching for traps takes a lot of time. Therefore, it's probably good roleplaying for a rogue to take some chances, to simply say "nah, nobody would put one here, let's not waste everyone's time while I spend an hour checking this hallway." It also goes without saying that sometimes adventurers must hurry. Maybe they're running from a pursuer, or maybe they're racing against the clock to get somewhere or do something before they run out of time. Creeping along while the rogue searches for traps might cause them to get caught, or fail their mission.
3.5e has lots of rules for this stuff, like it takes a full round to search 5'x 5'. So, if the corridor is 10'x10' and 80' long, it will take 128 rounds to search it all (assuming the rogue is checking the ceiling too - I love to put traps on the ceiling).
Most of these rules disappeared entirely from the Core rulebook (or got relocated to some part of the book where I haven't found them yet). In fact, the Core rulebook seems to say that anyone can find a trap with a passive check that takes no time (per the Perception skill).
But what fun is that?
So I say, lacking any clarification from Pathfinder, I'd stick with the 3.5 rules. It takes time. So you can't always search for traps when you are racing against the clock.
But other than that, I say assume the rogue is searching because that's what they do.
But they must be in front. Doesn't do any good for the guy bringing up the rear to search for the trap the fighter already fell into. And if the fighter walks up to a door and opens it before the rogue has even gotten there, then thee is no way the rogue checked it for traps.
But as long as the party is waiting on the rogue, and as long as the rogue's player has said he's looking for traps, that's good enough for me.
Now, another point to consider is whether to make the rogue roll 16 perception checks for every 10' of corridor he travels. Do you relly want the player to have to roll 128 times to traverse that 80' corridor? I don't think so.
So when I DM, I only roll a perception check to find a trap when there is a trap to be found. After all, when the rogue is spending 16 rounds checking a section of that corridor where there isn't a trap, who cares what he rolls? He could roll 16 natural 20s and not find a trap, or 16 natural 1s and not set off any traps, or anything in between.
It doesn't matter.
It only matters when he reaches an actual trap. So, one roll per trap, unless the rogue cannot take the time, or chooses not to take the time, or didn't reach the trap before someone else sets it off.
That's how I do it. Keeps the game moving right along and we never have that age-old debate "but you didn't specify that you searched that exact square inch of that section of that hallway, so you don't get to roll!".
A final note: it works better if the DM rolls the perception check for the rogue. Sure, sure, if you really want the rogue to state every section of hallway, every doorknob, every chest, every chair, bed, desk, rug, lampshade, flagstone, rat hole, etc., then let him roll. But if you're taking my advice to only roll when a trap exists, then the DM should roll secretly.
Why?
If you stop the action and tell the rogue's player to roll a mysterious d20 without explaining why, then when he rolls a 4 and you say "ah, well, it's nothing. Carry on." the first thing he does is say "hey, guys, I have a bad feeling about this hallway. Hold on a minute while I search around more carefully."
Is that metaming? Sure. Would a good player do that? Probably not.
But what about when the player opens a doorway and sees a suspicious room and he is already thinking "Hmmm, maybe trapped. I better check it out" right when you pipe up and tell him to roll. Then what? Now he's stuck. He wanted to search, and he got a 4, and he still wants to search but now he's afraid it will look metagamish.
If the DM rolls, it eliminates all the chances of actual metagaming or reverse-non-metagaming.
Jsut make sure to roll lots of random d20 at odd intervals even when you don't need to. That way they'll never know when you're rolling one for real...
3.5e has lots of rules for this stuff, like it takes a full round to search 5'x 5'. So, if the corridor is 10'x10' and 80' long, it will take 128 rounds to search it all (assuming the rogue is checking the ceiling too - I love to put traps on the ceiling).Most of these rules disappeared entirely from the Core rulebook (or...
I hate to quibble (all right, I lied- I love to quibble), but I think the 5'x5' square that you can search in 1 round (under 3.5 rules) included adjacent walls & cielings. So that searching a 5'x5' patch of dirt outdoors takes 1 round, and seaching a 5'x5' section of dungeon corridor -including adjacent walls, cielings and any materials within the square- also takes one round.
I cannot find any section of the PRD that explicitly spells out how trapfinding works. I am assuming that it isn't normally passive, although there are specific excepionst for rogues with the trapfinder talent and for dwarves with regards to stonework traps.
In the absence of any clear indicators within the rules, I would fall back on the 3.5 mechanics, meaning characters typically only make perception checks to notice traps when actively looking, and spending one round per 5'x5' square.
If I remember my CRPGs, the way it's normally handled is you can move half speed while searching for traps - similar to what you do when following tracks.
I would think checking an area for pressure plates, covered pits, and the like wouldn't take too much longer than trying to locate footprints - you're not conducting a thorough search, you're just trying to make sure that standing there is not going to be hazardous to your health.
..If you stop the action and tell the rogue's player to roll a mysterious d20 without explaining why, then when he rolls a 4 and you say "ah, well, it's nothing. Carry on." the first thing he does is say "hey, guys, I have a bad feeling about this hallway. Hold on a minute while I search around more carefully."
The only thing I would add would be about this exact scenario. I have my players make 99% of all rolls which include traps. In the above the roll would have happened and either the rogue finds the trap just before he sets it off. Or he finds the trap as he sets it off. So the 2nd part about the player metagaming does not come up. It seems to me to be the best of all worlds as players like to roll their own dice.