The Magic store is a pain I know.The problem with the old system was that some characters got loads of stuff they could use and others got little or nothing.
They were interesting, but as Wellard says, some characters got left out. For example, Esteriande is a specialised archetype - she uses a rare weapon with light armour, and needs enhancements to four stats (two mental, two physical) which is rare. Waiting to see what comes up is not going to work, especially as she'll be competing for said items with everyone else.
On the other hand, having a crafter is the best way of getting what we need rather than shopping for it - that's why I love crafting characters!
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As someone who played a lot of wizards back in the day, I miss the oodles of spellbooks (and scrolls) you'd find back in 1e and 2e adventures. Every enemy non-cleric spellcaster was a treasure trove of new spell options for the wizard!
Then the Sorcerer, and every enemy 'wizard' turned out to have nothing. I've only played a couple of wizards since 3.0, and I have been through, in one memorable case, three seperate volumes of an Adventure Path with not a single wizard item, pretty much *requiring* the wizard player to sell random crap for 1/2 value, and then buy stuff he could use, resulting in the wizard being almost always at half the WBL of the rest of the party.
It went from feast to famine!
It's gamist as all hell, but I'd almost prefer a system by which all of your gear dissolved into WBL worth of new stuff every time you leveled, so that everyone was always exactly at WBL, regardless of what they'd found or what had been sundered or what they'd been forced to sell for half-value because nobody could use it...
'Random' treasure never was, anyway. The one time I rolled a 16 for an artifact the DM laughed and said roll again. The time we rolled for our share of an epic treasure and the guy next to me got a +5 longsword, and the guy on the other side of me got a ring of djinn summoning, and I got a potion of levitation?
Oh, that counted!
'Random,' in my experience meant, 'If you roll crap, you're stuck with it, but if you roll too good, it doesn't count.'
There is a reward at the end of this chapter of the AP which will allow me to bring you all up to WBL parity.
As someone who played a lot of wizards back in the day, I miss the oodles of spellbooks (and scrolls) you'd find back in 1e and 2e adventures. Every enemy non-cleric spellcaster was a treasure trove of new spell options for the wizard!
Then the Sorcerer, and every enemy 'wizard' turned out to have nothing. I've only played a couple of wizards since 3.0, and I have been through, in one memorable case, three seperate volumes of an Adventure Path with not a single wizard item, pretty much *requiring* the wizard player to sell random crap for 1/2 value, and then buy stuff he could use, resulting in the wizard being almost always at half the WBL of the rest of the party.
It went from feast to famine!
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'Random' treasure never was, anyway. The one time I rolled a 16 for an artifact the DM laughed and said roll again. The time we rolled for our share of an epic treasure and the guy next to me got a +5 longsword, and the guy on the other side of me got a ring of djinn summoning, and I got a potion of levitation?
Oh, that counted!
'Random,' in my experience meant, 'If you roll crap, you're stuck with it, but if you roll too good, it doesn't count.'
As a DM it is so much easier to make a sorceror. Wizards take me at least 50% more time. So....
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We never let the PCs roll for random treasure. The DM generated all treasure beforehand. That way in your scenario the three PCs could fight to the death for the item they wanted.
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I played in a campaign years ago where the PCs were strong enough to overcome most opposition. But we were a bunch of back-stabbers. The DM would challenge us by giving us coveted loot to fight over and then he would sit back and watch us cut eachother's throats over it.
Good times.
I did once play in a game (like, twenty years ago...) where one party member killed another for a really awesome magical necklace made out of emeralds the size of peach-pits, only to find out the hard way that it was a necklace of strangulation.
Not quite a 'Head of Vecna' level boner, but still fun for the rest of us.
My first group was like that for a couple years. Intraparty intrigue and back stabbing was a big part of the game. One of the guys finally rolled this awesomely statted LG half-orc fighter who sorted the party out. It evolved into a cooperative game.
I had my fair share of games like that, but then I grew out of my teens ...
What I suggest is, every player keep a running tally of their gear value we can compare to WBL, and we divide the wealth we find accordingly. This means that if (for example) Esteriande is down 3K on WBL, and she gets Marak to craft a Belt of Dexterity for 2K costs, she has risen in WBL by 4K, putting her 1K over. We rate gear by it's value, not it's resale value or the cost of crafting.
Works for me, Dabbler. That way we can make sure nobody gets too far behind.
So, Wellard's list:
Adamantine Longsword +1 (Muchorak) 5,320Gp
A Hat of Disguise (Romon)1,800,gp
Ring of jumping (Romon) 2,500GP
Ring of protection +1 (Inikai)2,000GP
A wand of Knock with 18 charges remaining (Naria)1,620GP
Possibly for sale:
A second Sihedron Medallion(+1 to all saves, False life 1/day (CL5),Gentle Repose if worn by a corpse)3500GP ...
9,000gp cash from item sales and treasure
That makes the split -- 1285.71 gp each. Add 500 if we sell the medallion.
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Wellard -- ruling on Marak's Handy Haversack loot?
- 21pp (4 Magnimar), 98gp, 2500sp, 7500cp
- 50 badly flawed Malachites -- Romon values these at 1 gp each
- Nualia's magical amulet
- potion of cure moderate wounds (from bugbear)
- MW Healer's kit
- 20 arrows
- 4 +1 elf bane arrows (bugbear)
- Bugbears MW Comp. Longbow (+4 Str?)
- Nualia's MW Comp. Longbow (+2 Str?, currently held by Muchorak)
goblin-sized magical Hide armor (from Tentamort room) - MW heavy steel shield (oerik)
- 'sword' +1 (Oerik's?)
- Nualia's breastplate +1
- either MW shortbow? or Roman's bow (from Tentamort room)
- seven pointed star / key / thing. (First Sihedron Medallion)
If Wellard agrees we still have this stuff, I'd like to get the breastplate unto Muchorak, Esteriande, or someone else silly enough to stand in front of people when you try to kill them. I'm also perfectly happy with Muchorak keeping the bow of his choice; give Esteriande the other. Someone in the party who is not Marak ought to hold onto the cure moderate potion. That should be held in trust for the party entire and not count against their wealth under Dabbler's plan.
Obviously, I'm thinking about giving Ester stuff we won before her arrival. Romon has good in-game reasons for doing so. But also I figure if they're on the team they'll earn it soon enough.
You're right about Oerik's sword , Bill. I just re-read the thread.
Breastplate would slow Muchorak, but it is allowed rangers. Azoun might think it out of character.
Agreed, Marak is looking like the best candidate for the shield.
Is Inikai looking to expand his melee presence by the way? You're wading right into this fight.
As far as I know you still have all that stuff in the Haversack..
Nualia's amulet is a Sihedron Medallion. Frankly I can't really see why you are so keen to sell these..anything that adds +1 to all saves is useful at your level
The key like thing with the star was only the key to the Barghest's Prison.
I would suggest giving the Cure potion and healers kit to Esteriande..she is your secondary healer after all.
Well Esteriande's current equipment values out at 9,937.5gp, and WBL for level 6 is 16,000gp.
Looking at the gear, there is not much there that Esteriande could/would use. She's a light-armour only girl, so Nualia's armour is not for her, and she already has an amulet.
An upgrade to her weapon is her primary concern, then her armour or some stat boosters to dex/cha/str/int (in that order).
Edit: Ninja'd by Wellard! Yes, Esteriande can be your No. 2 healer - even without Mercies her lay-on-hands and spells will help keep the party healthy.
To add, Esteriande already has a MW composite long bow with a +2 strength mod, so the bows may as well be sold. Some with the shield and armour if Marak does not want them.
On the subject of the Elf Bane Arrows..I think that Shalelu would have taken those with her when she left Sandpoint..given the events in Second Darkness she could actually use them.
...and shooting them into Drow was definitely the most proper way to dispose of them.
...and shooting them into Drow was definitely the most proper way to dispose of them.
According to some, only if they are dipped in poison first ...
Man! Can't believe I forgot again! But anyway, Ali's Finally at 6th level.
Question though, when, exactly, does the first iterative attack begin? When BAB is +6 or when BAB plus Ability and Racial Bonus is +6?
And here's her stuff
*leather armor, now is +1 1,000gp
*Potion CLW, 50gp
*Potion CMWx2 600gp
*Potion Antitoxin 50gp
*Boots of Elven Kind 2,500gp
*Belt of Healing- heal 2d8 3/Day (2/3 left), 700gp (from the bazar in Sandpoint)
*Gloves of Str +2 4,000gp
Total: 8,900gp
Ok so this is Ali's Magic Item total, (if the potions are counted against her?)
So if the WBL is 16,000, guess she's a little begind ;)
It's when BAB is +6, with no modifiers.
Consumables are included in WBL calculations however Ali has 4000+GP of cash in reserve according to Muchoraks profile.
Ok cool, thanks to you both
Druid's vestments aren't too shabby ...
Yep yep, i've kept her money there, and honestly we haven't spent anything off of it for some time. The last major purchase for her was the belt. :D
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Marak's not terribly interested in the shield, but he'll totally snag one of the Sihedron amulets. The false life effect might be fun in combination with his regular shield other tactic, and +1 to all saves is always handy.
I have this vision of him casting shield other on both Muchorak and Esteriande, and then everybody getting whaled on by a fireball or negative energy channel and him taking massive extra damage... :)
Ok after you clear everything off Romons list off stuff this is a ball park figure for what you are short off for WBL..which leaves me feeling bad as i have obviously not been giving out enough
Ali 1115
Much 3115
Esteriande 4115
Marak 4615
Romon 8115
Naria 6115
Inikai 6615
Something nice (and useable) coming to each off you soon..
Ok after you clear everything off Romons list off stuff this is a ball park figure for what you are short off for WBL..which leaves me feeling bad as i have obviously not been giving out enough
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Good point Tim but you are supposed to end this chapter at 8th level and that means the cash curve has to pick up quite drastically..actually I just realised that you aqquired a further 500Gp each from the stash in the house.
So in fact the figures are
Ali 615
Muchorak 4615
Esteriande 3615
Marak 4115
Romon 7615
Naria 5615
Inikai 6115.
Believe me guys you are going to need to be fully equipped for the end game in this Chapter.
I wouldn't count the dough that much, house prices in Magnimar are not that steep by modern standards, especially since the sub-prime Dark Cult Subsidies fell through (for some reason they never thought that after lending money to necromancers in order to construct Dark Demesnes which would revert to the lender in the event of defaulting, some heroic do-gooder might destroy said demesne rather than simply selling it on, reducing available redemption to less than the original subsidy).
In any event, I have my wish-list ... :D
Good point Tim but you are supposed to end this chapter at 8th level and that means the cash curve has to pick up quite drastically..actually I just realised that you aqquired a further 500Gp each from the stash in the house.
So in fact the figures are
Ali 615
Muchorak 4615
Esteriande 3615
Marak 4115
Romon 7615
Naria 5615
Inikai 6115.Believe me guys you are going to need to be fully equipped for the end game in this Chapter.
[deadpan]If we picked up an extra 500 why did my total go down?[/deadpan]
I remember a host of threads discussing the lethality of that fight. But there are seven of us. As long as the combatant types hit their WBL, I'm confident this party can shred most encounters. And I'm not counting Romon as a main line combatant. Although we are a little squishy.
Your total went down on that list because that is what you lack for WBL
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Does the Sihedron amulet give a resistance bonus to saves?
If so, it won't stack with Marak's +1 cloak of resistance, and he can hand that off to someone who does not already have an item that gives resistance bonus to saving throws.
Marak can also now craft +2 cloaks of resistance for 2000 gp. Place your orders!
Other readily crafted items include;
Healing Belts, for those who don't already have them, perhaps? (500 gp to craft)
He'll be able to craft Belts of Giant's Strength +2 or Mighty Constitution +2, Headbands of Alluring Charisma +2 or Inspired Wisdom +2 as well (or Physical Might - Str + Con, or Mental Prowess - Wis + Cha). A +2 belt or headband is 2000 gp to craft, and one that gives +2 to Str+Con or Wis+Cha is 5000 gp to craft. (He'd need another caster present to be able to craft an item with +2 Dex or +2 Int, to cast Cat's Grace or Fox's Cunning.)
Cloaks of Resistance, also an option. 500 gp to craft or +1, 2000 gp to craft for +2.
Pearls of Power (1st - 3rd level), 500 gp, 2000 gp or 4500 gp.
Others; Bottle of Air, Candle of Truth, Circlet of Persuasion, Minor Circlet of Blasting, Cube of Frost Resistance, Elixir of Truth, Gem of Brightness, Goggles of Night, Helm of Comprehending Languages and Reading Magic, Helm of Underwater Action, Horn of Fog, Horn of Goodness/Evil, Lantern of Revealing, Medallion of Thought, Periapt of Health, Phylactery of Faithfulness, Robe of Bones (naughty!), Silversheen, Sovereign Glue, Stone of Good Luck, Necklace of Prayer Beads (bless, healing), Sustaining Spoon, Unguent of Timelessness
An item to boost dexterity or charisma would be great for Esteriande, Set.
@Set..the medallion is indeed a resistance bonus item..
Ahhh. Wellard, I thought your numbers were totals of our wealth, not the delta between our wealth and what we should have. Does that include Romon's pile of money? i added the hat and ring to his sheet but haven't added any of the new cash yet because I was waiting on final disposition of the various items.
I calculated the entire worth of the shares of treasure you might sell before calculating what you were short off.
the stuff in Maraks Haversack is disposed off as follows
potion of cure moderate wounds (from bugbear) to Esteriande
MW Healer's kit ditto to Esteriande
21pp (4 Magnimar), 98gp, 2500sp, 7500cp..all changed to gold..633 Gp
50 badly flawed Malachites -- Romon values these at 1 gp each...sold for 50gp
Bugbears MW Comp. Longbow (+4 Str?) sold for 400gp
small magical Hide armor (from Tentamort room) sold for 582 GP
MW heavy steel shield (oerik)Ester, Macho, or cash. sold for 85gp
Nualia's +1 Bastard Sword sold for 1167 Gp
Nualia's breastplate +1 Looks good on Macho or Ester sold for 675 GP
Roman's bow sold for 15 gp
2 sihedron medallions sold for 3500 (now that we have determined that Marak can make cloaks that are better).
A total off 7107, + 9000 from the stuff you already sold, +3500 from the platinum you just found = 19607 or 2801 gp each
lets just wipe all the sellables off the assorted character sheets and add the gold in we'll assume you sold it all in Sandpoint.
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I calculated the entire worth of the shares of treasure you might sell before calculating what you were short off.
the stuff in Maraks Haversack is disposed off as follows
potion of cure moderate wounds (from bugbear) to Esteriande
MW Healer's kit ditto to Esteriande21pp (4 Magnimar), 98gp, 2500sp, 7500cp..all changed to gold..633 Gp
50 badly flawed Malachites -- Romon values these at 1 gp each...sold for 50gpBugbears MW Comp. Longbow (+4 Str?) sold for 400gp
small magical Hide armor (from Tentamort room) sold for 582 GP
MW heavy steel shield (oerik)Ester, Macho, or cash. sold for 85gp
Nualia's +1 Bastard Sword sold for 1167 Gp
Nualia's breastplate +1 Looks good on Macho or Ester sold for 675 GP
Roman's bow sold for 15 gp
2 sihedron medallions sold for 3500 (now that we have determined that Marak can make cloaks that are better).
A total off 7107 + 9000 from the stuff you already sold=16107 or 2301 gp each
lets just wipe all the sellables off the assorted character sheets and add the gold in we'll assume you sold it all in sandpoint.
At the risk of throwing a spanner into the works as mentioned earlier Naria would want to keep at least one of the medallions.
OK so that's 2051 gold each and Naria has a medallion.
Er, because the medalion is worth more than her share? If we keep with the 'publish our gear-value and work on making up the difference for the worst off' then it should all work.
Actually would it not be better to give everyone the original share of god and just deduct the cost of the medallion from Naria's share?
Unfair to you. Based on the conversation about July 27th I took the hat and ring without paying. (I think Azoun scored the sword without paying also.) We seemed to be leaning toward the give items to those who can use them and then split the cash policy with Dabbler's caveat that we keep a running wealth tab on our character sheets and make sure no one falls behind.
So, Naria keeps the medallion and we all get a little less cash.
Best way, especially with a crafter in the party, otherwise how do you judge (for example) a belt of Dexterity made by Marak? Is it 2000gp (the cost) or 4000gp (the value)?
Set, taking advantage of crafting would be cool, but I'd like an RP opening. Maybe after seeing one of the others with a cool Marak-made thingamabob?
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Set, taking advantage of crafting would be cool, but I'd like an RP opening. Maybe after seeing one of the others with a cool Marak-made thingamabob?
Marak's wearing a +1 cloak of resistance and +2 headband of wisdom that he crafted, IIRC, after the goblins-at-Thistletop encounter.
We didn't really RP it, but he did make the offer to craft items, and provide the others with a list (in his profile, or upthread) of stuff he can readily make.
I'll add some in-character commentary, since it's topical at this very second...
So, if I'm reading things right looks like Ali has about 6,050 in cash and is 1,050 short of WBL?
As she's not a spender in any way, shape or form, I'd much rather she just get or find a item(s) of equivalent value.The other alternative, should we be given the time, would be Marak crafting items for +2 Chr and Con and perhaps a 2nd lvl pearl of power or that +2 cloak of resistance(sure is handy having a crafter on da it is!)
@Dabbler: Thanks. That would normally be good for Druids but Ali uses shapechange so her shifting form is therefore unlimited within her very limited selection of forms.