Sodden Hold map


Age of Worms Adventure Path


From what I can make out, the map is incorrect. To use the water elevator (40' down, 20' west, 40-' up) places the PC's in the building they just left. I am hoping this is a typo of some sort. I am shifting the directions so the tunnel leads 20' east, into the shadowed building next door. Anyone see where I've missed something?

Also, the water elevator, as has been previously pointed out, is pretty useless as written. Anyone played it differently than written?


Spoilers

There are a lot of small problems with Sodden Hold, and this room is a bit wierd and not clearly described (a side view diagram would be helpful if you reprint AOW in book form, editors!). As I read it, you have to descend 35 feet down the well-shaft in D8 to get to water-level. Then you have to swim down another 40 feet to the bottom well shaft, take the 20' long passage west to enter the "water-control chamber," swim 40 feet back to the surface in that room, and climb up the ladder to the top of the pillar, which sticks up 10 feet above the water level, in order to reach the control lever which lowers the platform and drains the water. This puts you 25 feet below the floor-level of the warehouse. The map shows the underwater passage from the well into the water-control chamber running southward rather than westward, which makes more sense, as it would place the chamber under the part of the warehouse that is built on land, rather than right under the part of the warehouse that juts out over the river.

However, my question is, how do Telakin's gang get in when they come back from a mission, or want to bring a prisoner down from the warehouse level. Do they swim past the giant octopus guarding the chamber to activate the lever? Do they have some sort of voice-tube allowing them to call down a password to a guard below, who flips the lever for them? Also, it seems like it would be rather difficult to lower an unconscious or uncooperative prisoner down the shaft to the barrel, then haul him up the ten foot ladder to the top of the elevator pillar.

Also, a drain hole big enough for a giant octopus to squeeze through is probably big enough for a halfling to get through, and maybe a human--octopi are squishy mollusks and probably deserve a +8 racial bonus on their escape artist check, but the monster manual lists them as large creatures, so I'm guessing it would take at least a 2-3 foot wide hole for them to squeeze through. If the party wants to pursue it into the drain tank and finish it off, we should have some info on that space.

And I'm guessing there is some magic device involved in pumping the water in and out of the drain tank to another holding tank, or a permanent "control water" effect perhaps. I suppose the salt water for the tank is refreshed regularly from the elemental plane of water somehow or is aerated with a magic device, since otherwise the Octopus would die from lack of oxygen otherwise--and the salt water certainly didn't come from the ocean, at least not if we're setting Greyhawk as the Free City.

Of course, the PC's players probably won't think of these things, and I may be nitpicking it to death, but it seems like a good idea to have some answers ready if they do. (E.g., what if the party rogue tries to use "disable device" to sabotage or manipulate the mechanism somehow? Can he use it to completely flood out the lower level of the dungeon? Or drain the water out of the drain tank so the Octopus dies? Or jam the pillar in the down position so that enemies left in the level have trouble pursuing the party? What is the DC for these actions? Does the device give a positive readout for a detect magic spell?)

It is an interesting encounter, and I suppose space limits prevent addressing all contingencies in the magazine, but a few indications for the DM would be helpful.

Another small item that seems illogical is the unsafe ladder in D4, which is the only means of accessing the secret door into the rest of the warehouse unless you have a rope to get up and down onto the catwalk. This poses the same problems for movement of prisoners in and out that the barrel ride does. Should there be, perhaps, extremely difficult to locate secret doors (DC 35+ to prevent party rogue from finding them) to bypass these two difficulties? Of course if one takes this route to make the dungeon more logical, all it takes is one detect secret doors spell to bypass these challenges. I would say this is no great loss for the adventure on the weak ladder, but leaving out the octopus is a bigger deal.

Also, the "shaded planks" in D7 marking the structurally unsound pillar don't show up in the printed map. I assume the weak pillar is either the one just below the "D7" on the map, or just to the right of it, but it would be helpful in the reprint to make sure the shading shows up in the galley proofs.


Many of the same thoughts I had. It is probable my party will mess with, or at least want a more thorough explanation of, the whole water elevator set-up.

Hadn't considered the crumbling ladder. I need to do a little revamp before letting them loose in there. Thanks for the tips.


I'm making a slight modification to the design. The room the octopus is in is actually a bit deeper on some parts and the areas leading to the secret door and the entrance to Sodden Hold I'm leaving the same height. That way I don't have to worry about the ludicrous idea of an octopus fitting inside a drain. As for the salt water, I hadn't thought of that. However the adventure mentions that Zyrxog had been experimenting on the creature so perhaps he came up with a fresh-water octopus.

It's also important to note that the shaft the barrel is in leads down to that short area jutting north of room D9 so the chamber is not underneath the river. As for the question of how the dopplegangers use this, I will assume that when going down, one swims into the room, climbs up on the platform and throws the lever. The octopus is friendly to the dopplegangers (it is their pet and they feed it). Areas D10 and D19 should have some method of draining the water as well however. So I suggest putting a lever just inside those doors.

You're right though. Without a couple modifications this area makes absolutely no sense. I've found at least one such area in virtually every AoW adventure thus far. It seems like they are trying to maintain some kind of consistency. :)


Peruhain of Brithondy wrote:

Spoilers

Also, a drain hole big enough for a giant octopus to squeeze through is probably big enough for a halfling to get through, and maybe a human--octopi are squishy mollusks and probably deserve a +8 racial bonus on their escape artist check, but the monster manual lists them as large creatures, so I'm guessing it would take at least a 2-3 foot wide hole for them to squeeze through. If the party wants to pursue it into the drain tank and finish...

You'd be surprised how small a hole a regular octopus can fit through. I have heard that a normal sized octopus can fit down the drain of your sink! Double the size for a large one, and I'd say that a drain/tube about 6-10 inches across would be sufficient for a large one.


Pop'N'Fresh wrote:
You'd be surprised how small a hole a regular octopus can fit through. I have heard that a normal sized octopus can fit down the drain of your sink! Double the size for a large one, and I'd say that a drain/tube about 6-10 inches across would be sufficient for a large one.

What's your source? I'm no expert on octopus but I find that a bit hard to swallow without some authoritative source on the matter.


airwalkrr wrote:
What's your source? I'm no expert on octopus but I find that a bit hard to swallow without some authoritative source on the matter.

My friend's wife is a marine biologist and my brother is a scuba instructor, who has seen these things in action :)

Sovereign Court

airwalkrr wrote:
Pop'N'Fresh wrote:
You'd be surprised how small a hole a regular octopus can fit through. I have heard that a normal sized octopus can fit down the drain of your sink! Double the size for a large one, and I'd say that a drain/tube about 6-10 inches across would be sufficient for a large one.
What's your source? I'm no expert on octopus but I find that a bit hard to swallow without some authoritative source on the matter.

Octopi are boneless last i heard. On the subject of the map most likely the dopplegangers used the sewers since sodden hold was meant to be a trap anyhow.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Pop'N'Fresh wrote:
airwalkrr wrote:
What's your source? I'm no expert on octopus but I find that a bit hard to swallow without some authoritative source on the matter.
My friend's wife is a marine biologist and my brother is a scuba instructor, who has seen these things in action :)

Indeed. The only hard part of an octopus is its beak. If the opening is larger than its beak, it can squeeze through.


Demiurge 1138 wrote:
Indeed. The only hard part of an octopus is its beak. If the opening is larger than its beak, it can squeeze through.

Advantage of being a mollusk I guess...


So Octopi are almost as flexible as the gholam in Robert Jordan's Dragon Reborn series, which can squeeze under a door.

On the subject of levers for the folks inside--D10 doesn't need a lever because you can walk out on the stone platform that extends from the door out to the pillar (level with the pillar when it's raised, but misleadingly shaded on the map as if it were underwater--see the description for D9). D19 does need a lever, though, or an interlock to keep anyone opening the secret door from flooding the passage leading to it. Alternatively, the secret door could be above water level and have a ladder allowing one to climb 40-50' down to the floor if the water is drained. Incidentally, to open to the floor of the room, D19 would have to be quite a ways below river level, which doesn't make sense for a passage off the sewer system. (I would have to assume that the Greyhawk sewers drain to the Selintan River and not to a one-way gate into the elemental plane of sludge, but I'm not an authority by any means.)


This area doesn't make much sense to me, either.

I think I'll just ignore the mechanism and let it be ye olde submergede passage leadinge to the bad guy laire (TM), and assume the doppelgangers use Zyrxog's entrance to get in and out.

Why stretch credulity and add unnecessary (i.e not contributing to theme or plot) complication at the same time? Life is too short . . . que sera d20!


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I think I worked it out. Go to my website and have a look at the page for week 15. I have a couple of pictures there showing how I think it works.

http://www.paulmurray.id.au/ageofworms/week15.html


I added a secret door out of the dopplegangers "planning room" - where all the important papers were - into the sewers under Greyhawk. In my game, that's how the dopplegangers came in and out, not through the warehouse. The warehouse is just one big deathtrap to scare off anyone brave (or dumb) enough to be snooping around. Also, I had the drow attack, at the end, occur in the sewers just outside the hideout, rather than back at the octopus room, and I included a map of the sewer system with the other important papers found there.

As for the map issues, just assume there's a typo in the orientation (i.e., make "north" become "east" - or whatever - in one map, so that it makes sense to you).


Paul Murray wrote:

I think I worked it out. Go to my website and have a look at the page for week 15. I have a couple of pictures there showing how I think it works.

http://www.paulmurray.id.au/ageofworms/week15.html

That's just how I figured it had to be; it was just the direction of the tunnel leading from the bottom of the first shaft to the bottom of the second that was a little misleading at first. I seem to recall having made some drawings similar to the diagrams on your site before finally having a Eureka moment. Once I figured that out, it was smooth sailing (since my players never bothered to stop and wonder why the bad guys would set up their entrance so they'd have to make a dangerous swim though octopus-infested waters). Other than actually surviving the whole place, that is.

Thay did ask me how the doppelgangers had managed to get them all into their cells above though... "Umm... do me a favor and just don't ask me that. You were all blindfolded so you're not sure. Now let's move on, shall we?"

BTW, nice diagrams of the water shafts! How did you make those?

And are you at all concerned that Paizo might take exception to your using their map images and (what I assume are their) room descriptions on your site? Just wondering since I keep a similar online record for my players but have avoided using this stuff on mine for fear of the copyright law ninjas. If they permit this usage, it would sure save me a lot of time and effort! WotC's gallery images are a constant temptation as well...

Kang

Scarab Sages

bump, since this would be useful to a lot of folk.


Paul Murray wrote:

I think I worked it out. Go to my website and have a look at the page for week 15. I have a couple of pictures there showing how I think it works.

http://www.paulmurray.id.au/ageofworms/week15.html

Thanks, I've been trying to figure this out for the last 40 minutes. Now it all makes sense.


Yes, it makes more sense for the secret sewer tunnel (D19) to lead into the planning room (D13) - that's how I had it in my campaign. I also took out the whole flooded U-bend and elevator pillar mechanism, making it so the water pit (D8) just led straight down to the level of the warrens, with a water-tight door at the bottom leading to a corridor (with drains and spare barrels in it) that gave into the trapped hallway (D10). I put a well-hidden lever below the level of the water in the pit, which activated the door below, making it possible to operate the "water lift" from either end. I can provide my altered map, if anyone's interested.

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