OK, maybe he’s not a True Necromancer yet, but he plans to be and after finding that “Spawn of Kyuss” in a jar in Filge’s lab and doing some research on it, he’s fascinated! According the MM2, a Cleric of 16th lvl may cast Create Greater Undead on a worm from a diseased corpse to create a SoK. Now considering that you don’t HAVE to be 16th lvl to cast the spell (you can be 15th lvl and still cast it) I’m assuming that the prerequisite is an actual Class lvl requirement: you must be a 16th lvl Cleric. As a True Necromancer PC (from Liberis Mortis) gains the abilities to cast more spells per day (as an arcane or divine spellcaster), but not any other feature, which leads me to believe that a True Necromancer able to cast such a spell CANNOT create a SoK because he is not a true 16th lvl Cleric. Otherwise, the SoK description would’ve stated that you have to be able to cast 16th lvl divine spells.
On another related note, the True Necromancer does get to cast Create Greater Undead as a spell-like ability as early as 8th lvl in the PC (which would roughly calculate into 14th Character Level). With the +2 Caster lvl bonus from the Necromantic Prowess ability, that would push it to 16th caster lvl. That could be seen as prerequisite enough to create a SoK.
This isn’t so much a cry for help as it is a want of opinion, reflection and comparison amongst fellow gamers. Lemme know what you think. Thanks.
Not taking the whole AP background into consideration, I would tend to say that I would allow it.
After all it makes sense that a True Necromancer be better at these things than a plain Cleric. So if your True Necromancer can casts 8th level spells and has a caster level of 16+ I would think that he indeed should be allowed to create Spawns of Kyuss.
Now you might want to wait a bit (and see the AP overview from Overload) before deciding if you are going to allow him to go in this direction in your game.
Bocklin
I would allow it when he has a caster level of 16 and can cast the spell. You said this will be when the character gets to 14th character level, right? By the time the Age of Worms gets him to that point, I predict he will have changed his mind about creating one.
Bear in mind that the campaign will probably have the characters going up against some plans of Kyuss himself. This may well interfere with the character's ability to control any Spawn of Kyuss that he creates.
Bear in mind that the campaign will probably have the characters going up against some plans of Kyuss himself. This may well interfere with the character's ability to control any Spawn of Kyuss that he creates.
By that point maybe he would be able to use some of Kyuss's own minions against him. Just because Kyuss created the type of undead doesn't mean he has complete control over every one of them.
By that point maybe he would be able to use some of Kyuss's own minions against him. Just because Kyuss created the type of undead doesn't mean he has complete control over every one of them.
True enough. I was just thowing the idea out there. Consider that the only way to make a Spawn of Kyuss is by using the worms that came from an existing one. Which means that every spawn in existence can be directly traced back to one made by Kyuss himself.
Although this doesn't mean Kyuss has complete control of every one, I can certainly see a DM giving Kyuss a great deal of influence over them.
Thanks alot gang! You put alot of ideas into perspective. It is quite a way down the road till he's able to attempt such a feat AND it should weigh in heavily upon his shoulders whether or not he wants to do it. PLUS there is the chance that some other force (Kyuss himself perhaps) might have more control over these things. I will allow it, and I'll post anything thats happens on the board. Thanks again and take care :)
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I would allow it and would as well try to make him feel VERY BAD about what he's done.
Just think of a character who realizes that he played a part in bringing the AoW down onto his own world and has brought misery to the ones he loves. If he has relatives, one might be killed by a SoK he has created, or may rise as one...
Uhh, quite a lot of roleplaying opportunities!
I would allow it and would as well try to make him feel VERY BAD about what he's done.
Mmmm, BAD huh. The problem with undead is that creating them is an EVIL act. Creating a few skeletons and zombies won't put you on the fast track to hell or the abyss but creating anything beyond that certainly will => Spawn of Kyuss seem to fall in the highway to hell category!
So your true necromancer could do it, but really shouldn't. (this isn't going to stop him/her ofcourse) Enter a victim of the SoK disgruntled family and friends ;>
I believe that the "requires 16th level cleric" bit is an artifact from 3.0, where only clerics could cast Greater Create Undead, anyways. Logically, an cleric, wizard, or sorcerer (or favoured soul, for that matter) who knows Greater Create Undead should be able to create a spawn of Kyuss at Caster Level (not class level) 16, which is the same time they could start making wraiths.
I would allow it and would as well try to make him feel VERY BAD about what he's done.
Yeah, I agree with DarkJoy, that he's probably not gonna feel bad. Plus he's gonna start on his Cleric path for 3 lvl's (part of his prerequisite for True Necromancer). Another thought to chew on, gang.
This player plans on worshiping Wee Jas (the more friendlier of the 2 Death Gods of Greyhawk), yet I really don't see anything in Wee Jas's make-up that makes me think a True Necromancer would be allowed by that god's teachings. Even though he meets the alignment prereq's for both the faith and the prestige class.
I will of course try to discourage any activity that I feel Wee Jas wouldn't tolerate amoung it's followers (perhaps like creating SoK's in the first place), but the True Necromancer's description appears too dark and evil. My player think's a bit too neutrally (his argument being that the undead he creates and controls will only be used for good). Honestly, I think his endeavour is doomed...maybe he should just be content with a Spell Focus on Necromantic Magic.
Anyway, just a thought. Comment on it as you will. Thanks :)
Didn't the True Necromancer have some ability that allowed all your arcane and divine casting levels to stack for some purposes, specifically how they relate to undead?
Just some flavor for you to mull over, Tankred, but in prior editions of the game clerics of Wee Jas were pretty rarely involved with undead or even resurrections. Regarding undead, here's an excerpt from the "From the Ashes" boxed set:
She is a protector of the dead, and her priests are only rarely allowed to command undead creatures, having to commune with Wee Jas to see if this is acceptable to her.
Obviously, play this as you'd like in your own campaign. But this will give you an awful lot of leeway for regulating what your player can get away with. "Sorry dude, Wee Jas just doesn't go for that." ;-)