Calistria and Lavender Lil

Having read the article on Calistria, I don't understand why her temple is sheltering Lavender Lil. If Zincher is seeking revenge for his brother's death, shouldn't Calistria be on HIS side?

Having read the article on Calistria, I don't understand why her temple is sheltering Lavender Lil. If Zincher is seeking revenge for his brother's death, shouldn't Calistria be on HIS side?

From what I have read about the subject I don't think she would for a few reasone... 1) Lil is a mix breed and Calistria seems to love mixed heritage. 2) She is somewhat of a "follower" in the lust sense, 3) Zincher is taking it out on her even though it wasn't technically her fault. As such the way I see it is the priestess and Madame essentially sees him putting the blame in the wrong place or at least not focusing correctly and taking the easy anger venting way out. Also it's important to note she does fit with the church's theme well and it even says her shared heritage is why the priestess took her in in the first place.

What Stewart said.

Especially part 3. Revenge is different than blind retaliation in Calistria's (and her faith's) eyes. In order for revenge to be at its sweetest, said revenge needs to be appropriate. Lil isn't technically the one at fault here, despite what Zincher thinks.

And of course, things would probably be very, very different if Zincher worshiped Calistria and Lavender Lil did not...

Little off-topicish but, I would like to point out that my players thought the idea of a church that basically doubles as a Brothel of sorts was the coolest thing they've ever heard of. Oh and One player is basically in mad love with Lavender Lil. It's pretty cool actually, my only problem is deciding if he could actually whoo! her into actually liking him back...

Little off-topicish but, I would like to point out that my players thought the idea of a church that basically doubles as a Brothel of sorts was the coolest thing they've ever heard of. Oh and One player is basically in mad love with Lavender Lil. It's pretty cool actually, my only problem is deciding if he could actually whoo! her into actually liking him back...

Cool! Of course, we can't claim the idea was our own. Sacred prostitutes and church brothels are as much inspired from history as longswords and castles are.

Having read the article on Calistria, I don't understand why her temple is sheltering Lavender Lil. If Zincher is seeking revenge for his brother's death, shouldn't Calistria be on HIS side?

Because both the deity's described so far in the 2nd Darkness AP are more fickle and humanistic in their nature rather than being fundamental forces of their chosen patronage. Rather than being the driving elemental forces of the universe, they are more like Greek or Roman deities who do all the mundane human things like take a poop or eat food or start petty arguments etc...

So, even though Calistria is the "goddess of revenge" she could and does on a whim or fancy ignore her "divine duties."

This is the crux of my personal dislike of the deities presented in the Pathfinder system.

They seem less like deities and more like epic level PC's.

Joana wrote:

Having read the article on Calistria, I don't understand why her temple is sheltering Lavender Lil. If Zincher is seeking revenge for his brother's death, shouldn't Calistria be on HIS side?

Because both the deity's described so far in the 2nd Darkness AP are more fickle and humanistic in their nature rather than being fundamental forces of their chosen patronage. Rather than being the driving elemental forces of the universe, they are more like Greek or Roman deities who do all the mundane human things like take a poop or eat food or start petty arguments etc...

So, even though Calistria is the "goddess of revenge" she could and does on a whim or fancy ignore her "divine duties."

This is the crux of my personal dislike of the deities presented in the Pathfinder system.

They seem less like deities and more like epic level PC's.

Umm, Caldyan, Iori, Iomedae, and Norbager [someone please correct my spelling!] are epic level PCs who have accended to godhood.

Cohlrox wrote:

Joana wrote:

Having read the article on Calistria, I don't understand why her temple is sheltering Lavender Lil. If Zincher is seeking revenge for his brother's death, shouldn't Calistria be on HIS side?

Because both the deity's described so far in the 2nd Darkness AP are more fickle and humanistic in their nature rather than being fundamental forces of their chosen patronage. Rather than being the driving elemental forces of the universe, they are more like Greek or Roman deities who do all the mundane human things like take a poop or eat food or start petty arguments etc...

So, even though Calistria is the "goddess of revenge" she could and does on a whim or fancy ignore her "divine duties."

This is the crux of my personal dislike of the deities presented in the Pathfinder system.

They seem less like deities and more like epic level PC's.

Umm, Caldyan, Iori, Iomedae, and Norbager [someone please correct my spelling!] are epic level PCs who have accended to godhood.

add Aroden... evn if he is dead, he wasthe 1st mortal that became a god... in the same way the others did... with the starstone

and I like the greek-like gods even if they don't involve themselves that much as the gods of Faerun... thosw indeedmademetired ofavatars and phisical appearances of gods... it just became vulgar

Yeah; we are certainly trying to make the gods of Pathfinder be more like Greek gods or Norse gods; gods who aren't perfect, can make mistakes, and have pretty human attitudes about things. Particularly in the case of gods that ascended from mortals (like Cayden Cailean), or in particularly fickle or emotional gods (like Calistria). There are other gods, like Pharasma and Gozreh, that are a lot more "mature" about being a deity, of course, but for the most part, gods that can make errors are more interesting than gods that don't. I'm relatively certain that of the 20 core deities, none of them are actually older than the Material Plane; none of them created the world. A few (notably Pharasma and Rovagug) predate humanity, but the majority do not.

This is by design; we get to have our cake and eat it too by having actual gods in the game but retain the mystery of "who created the world" and "what came first" and all that, and also get to have some really cool stuff like aboleths predating deities and faith.

There may or may not have been deities before who created the world and created the multiverse, or the whole thing might instead have been created by a Big Bang. We'll probably never say.

Because both the deity's described so far in the 2nd Darkness AP are more fickle and humanistic in their nature rather than being fundamental forces of their chosen patronage. Rather than being the driving elemental forces of the universe, they are more like Greek or Roman deities who do all the mundane human things like take a poop or eat food or start petty arguments etc...

Oh thanks for that! I needed a good laugh. I got this image in my head of Zeus sitting on the throne! :)

So, even though Calistria is the "goddess of revenge" she could and does on a whim or fancy ignore her "divine duties."

This is the crux of my personal dislike of the deities presented in the Pathfinder system.

They seem less like deities and more like epic level PC's.

They seem just like polytheistic deities, just not like multiple monotheistic deities - which i regard as a good thing.

This is the crux of my personal dislike of the deities presented in the Pathfinder system.

They seem less like deities and more like epic level PC's.

That's how I like my gods, especially in a polytheistic belief system. More than one infallible omnipotent, omniscient entity at once should not work well, especially if they work against each other.

If we were talking about several monotheistic faiths, where each church not only wants you to limit your worship on their deity, but refuse to believe any other deities exist, I could see a different approach, but that's just not the case. Everyone knows there are lots of deities around, and there's people that worship more than one.

Plus, this all is still quite flattering compared to what Pratchett has to say about gods on Discworld.

Let There Be Lettuce!

add Aroden... evn if he is dead, he wasthe 1st mortal that became a god... in the same way the others did... with the starstone

Not the same way the others did. The others took the starstone test and succeeded. He set up the test, after he became a god. I'm not quite sure whether the starstone was the catalyst for his apotheosis, either.

And let's not forget Irori, who became a god simply by perfecting himself. Didn't need the starstone at all. Smart man, that. Smart god now, too.

and I like the greek-like gods even if they don't involve themselves that much as the gods of Faerun... thosw indeedmademetired ofavatars and phisical appearances of gods... it just became vulgar

It wasn't so bad at first.

But things went south when they started starring in a 20th-rate Soap Opera....

*Tyr walks in on your typical looks-like-they-are-making-out-when-they-really-are-not scene between Helm and Tymora*
Tyr: "Honey! HELM!"
Tymora and Helm: "It's not what it looks like!"
Tyr: "It's not what it looks like my perfect, non-smelling-poo-excreting behind! I challenge you to Claw-Plock"
Helm: "Common please."
Tyr: "A fight to the death!"
Helm: "Of course, that makes perfect sense. You're the lawful good one, and will later only put that punk Cyric on House Arrest for brutally murdering Mystra, so obviously we must kill each other instead of talking it out like buddies."
Tymora: "Tyr! Wait! I found out that we're siblings. I had amnesia and it just came back to me!"

Little off-topicish but, I would like to point out that my players thought the idea of a church that basically doubles as a Brothel of sorts was the coolest thing they've ever heard of.

Old hat. Has been around for millenia. One reason the Bible is against things like homosexuality or casual sex is because other religions were fine with it, and they wanted to demonise them and establish how much better they are than those heathens.