Is that correct? $15 for a 37 page PDF?
Is that correct? $15 for a 37 page PDF?
Thats $.405 a page. Well worth it IMO.
@ Denimin in Leather: Yes as the was the cost to be a standard patron on the project, also how many full color pdfs are there in support of Arcana Evolved? Sometime its about supply and demand.
@Dark Mistress:
Thank you for taking the time to do a review of the product.
My biggest critic was on the first two classes, it wasn't 100% clear on if you just replace any powers of existing classes with those listed or not.
I wish you would have asked, looked in the core book, or the AE SRD referencing the Champion and Totem Warrior classes as this is 100% how they work, and how they are presented is the exact format we are required to follow.
For those that use Arcane Evolved book I rate this a 4 star product, for those that use Litorians or want to included a cat race in their games then I rate it a 3 star. Though either way you would need Arcane Evolved to get full use of this product.
I would like to point out that it does say on the front cover.
"Requires the uses of Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved"
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My biggest critic was on the first two classes, it wasn't 100% clear on if you just replace any powers of existing classes with those listed or not.I wish you would have asked, looked in the core book, or the AE SRD referencing the Champion and Totem Warrior classes as this is 100% how they work, and how they are presented is the exact format we are required to follow.
Understandable. But I suppose my point was it would have been nice if a little box had been added saying as much to make it 100% clear. Something like. This classes are designed to work and are present in the exact format for Arcana Envolved. or something like that, I always believe it is better to error on the side of being overly clear is all.
I disagree to me that is like expecting a supplement for the Pathfinder RPG to explain to you how the paladin and ranger classes works. .
If you play AE you already know what a Wolf, Bear, Snake, and Shark totem warriors do and that they appear in the core book in exactly the same way. The same goes for Champions of Light, Darkness, Death, Knowledge, and Justice etc. And that the Core Rulebook presents a little box of the rules of how to create your own totem warriors and champions in their respective sections.
The book requires the use of Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved, I just don't believe its fair point for me to blame the supplement if its a failure on my part to understand the core rules.
Matthew check our Facebook page for the info you want.
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It's not a blame, it's a critic. It is just something I personally would like to see in products is all. I understand you disagree with my critic and that's fine. But I still would have rather seen it added personally. Not to mention it is a pretty minor critic. As for the ranger example, if someone did a alternate ranger with no class table in a book. But a list of alternate powers etc. Then I would expect the same thing.
The critic didn't effect my rating of the product it was feedback. My rating was based solely on if someone was familiar with Arcana Evolved and how good the product was for the price.
I apologize when you read your review the only critics you provided was your persona preference about the format used to present the totem warrior animal spirit and the champion's cause. And that it is less useful to folks who don't play Arcana Evolved.
So I assumed they were the major critics. There was never any mention in the review about How good the product was for the price. I can't dispute pricing it is what it is by the nature of the product and that no one else is making product for this line but us.
Also a friend pointed out to me that ranger is the wrong class to point out that its more like making a Sorcerous Bloodline and wanting us to repost the sorcerer's table.
Also I do want you know that I really do appreciate your taking the time review of the product.
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Well no i wasn't wanting the table. I wanted a little sidebar explaining it is all. Something 2-3 sentences long to make it perfectly clear exactly how it works. "Something like. The powers here replace the powers of the Champion class of the same level." Something as simple as that to make it 100% clear is what I would have wanted to see.
Well I kinda thought the finally grade of 4 star for those that use Arcana Evolved and 3 star for other d20 players was, kinda spoke to how good I thought the project was as a whole, for the price. :)
@Dark Mistress
"The powers here replace the powers of the Champion class of the same level."
We did not replace any powers.
The Champion in the core book reads like this
Champion Ability: All champions choose a cause to defend and uphold. The champion's adopted cause dictates the abilities granted her in defending that cause at 1st level and every five levels thereafter. See the “Causes to Champion” section on page 47.
You don't have a power to "replace" the power listed is the cause, the Cause of Honor is simply a new cause in the same way that a someone lists a new sorcerer bloodline.
the totem warrior in the core book reads like this
Totem Powers: At 1st level, totem warriors gain a special ability based on their chosen totem. The totem warrior gains an additional power at 4th level, and at every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, 16th, 20th, and 24th).
So this works exactly the same way.
@Matthew it was on April fools day so you got Bizzaro Steve.
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Ok replace was a poor word choice. I get they are meant to go into the power slots when the class gets powers. I just still would have liked to have a little sentence or two saying that is all. It's a minor thing, but if you have noticed in my reviews I always try to find something to critic and this was just about the only thing I could find to critic. :)
@Dark Mistress
Thanks
@ Erik Mona: 1. I did not know Keith Strohm played a Litorian.
For another fun fact,
The dedication in the book is to Wolfgang Baur who kindly let us reference his "Pride" short story from the Dragons' Return anthology.
2) Denim N Leather wins major points for naming himself after a SAXON song.
Woohoo! :)
@ Qwilion/Rite Publishing: I wasn't attacking, or even inferring, that the book is overpriced. I was just asking if the price was correct! Sheesh! Someone forgot to take off his +2 Ring Of Over Defensiveness!
@Denim N Leather
Sorry, this is one of those things that I am probably overly close too. SO how about I just state what you get for you money and a bit about why.
The price is correct and is the same price as a standard patronage on the Litorians project (patrons of the original product also got the paper minis and the map pack for free and access to the print on demand at cost).
The product is Full-Color interior with a piece of original artwork every 2.5 pages.
@ Matthew
That's bad form, your advertising for another stores website (lulu.com) at another stores forum, (and this is the store's forum, not the compatible products from other companies forum).
You will notice I don't talk about any other stores in the store forum only in the compatible products from other companies forum.
All right. It's official folks. We're sending Steve out to Charm School. It's not just that he pays us writers on time. Well okay, yeah, it pretty much is. :D
@Dark Mistress - Long time no see! Glad to find other Necro Boards folks have meandered over here. Awesome review. As a (tiny) contributor I thank you and everyone else who took the time to read and consider.
As a factor of interest, I might be willing to buy this if the crunch % is decent. Can anyone tell me what the crunch v. fluff ratio is?
As a factor of interest, I might be willing to buy this if the crunch % is decent. Can anyone tell me what the crunch v. fluff ratio is?
It's got quite a lot of crunch, actually. I dare say it's mostly crunch w/ lots of wrapping flavor fluff after the first few pages.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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@ Matthew
That's bad form, your advertising for another stores website (lulu.com) at another stores forum, (and this is the store's forum, not the compatible products from other companies forum).
You will notice I don't talk about any other stores in the store forum only in the compatible products from other companies forum.
Ok, so much for trying to help. *sigh* I'll take my foot out of my mouth now.
@Matthew, its ok, I sent you bonus stuff for trying to help out ;)
@Twin Agate Dragons
75.675% of Litorians is crunch (28 out of 37 pages, and I did not include the map as crunch).
Publisher Rant (this is aimed not at Twin Agate Dragons but Designers in general)
I hate fluff, I am not talking about the term fluff, I am talking about actual fluff; text that has nothing to do with the game, where a game designer decides they are a author of fiction, flavor is fine but only if its USEFUL FLAVOR (TM)!
If you buy Litorians and you read pages 2-4 (the introduction) which are about The map and about Litorian tribes, take in the context that is not just telling you a story, its giving you the litorian mindset, its telling a GM what it would be like for a Litorian adventurer to return home to his tribe, it tells you how they treat nonlitoirsn (his faen companion). The story is not told from some authors avatar god mode sue scholars point of view its told from the Litorian's point of view.
I actually have a Litoran NPC in my Pathfinder campaign; very minor character, which of course the party made into a major NPC.
I love AE and though I play Pathfinder I've used several AE classes for NPCs in Pathfinder, though you have to pump them up a bit to match PF power.
I will most definitely be getting this book!
Ashton Sperry's paper minis: Litorians has the Pathfinder Rpg version of the Litorian Race.
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All right. It's official folks. We're sending Steve out to Charm School. It's not just that he pays us writers on time. Well okay, yeah, it pretty much is. :D
@Dark Mistress - Long time no see! Glad to find other Necro Boards folks have meandered over here. Awesome review. As a (tiny) contributor I thank you and everyone else who took the time to read and consider.
Yeah I have been posting over here since about issue 6 of rise of the Runelords. I typically am not nearly as active here as I am on the Necro boards until I hit my review kick. Thanks I have no idea what I am doing with reviews, but it seems more often than not people like them. *shrug* so i guess I am doing something right.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Ashton Sperry's paper minis: Litorians has the Pathfinder Rpg version of the Litorian Race.
Cool, I had missed this. Do you think the racial/evolved levels work ok as is, not counting needed changes to skills, etc.
I know that 6 levels of Dracha make for a good Half Dragon.
How much of the book can one use without the Monte Cook publications?
How much of the book can one use without the Monte Cook publications?Well the stat blocks all need to be converted, same as the classes. You can see by my review. Since I list how many each pages take up of stuff.
Same sort of question...
If I have the Minis with the racial conversion, does everything else pretty much come over without much change (beyond the obvious...like the difference in 3.5 to PF classes...)?
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How much of the book can one use without the Monte Cook publications?Well the stat blocks all need to be converted, same as the classes. You can see by my review. Since I list how many each pages take up of stuff.Same sort of question...
If I have the Minis with the racial conversion, does everything else pretty much come over without much change (beyond the obvious...like the difference in 3.5 to PF classes...)?
Well the two classes are still for Arcana Evolved, same as the NPC stat blocks. Feats and rites I think could be ported over to PFRPG with little trouble. And the classes you could steal idea's from, converting the classes would be a lot harder though. Since they are based on classes that got to level 30. But the race paragon class levels and the PrC could be ported over with a little tweaking as they are a 5 and 10 level respectively(like taking 3.5 classes to PFRPG).
Thank you Dark_Mistress! That's what I wanted to know.
You would need an understanding of The Champion class and the Totem Warrior class, Their are also a few spells and feats with different names and unique spells and feats, that you would need the Core Book.
Also here is a trailer
Well the two classes are still for Arcana Evolved, same as the NPC stat blocks. Feats and rites I think could be ported over to PFRPG with little trouble. And the classes you could steal idea's from, converting the classes would be a lot harder though. Since they are based on classes that got to level 30. But the race paragon class levels and the PrC could be ported over with a little tweaking as they are a 5 and 10 level respectively(like taking 3.5 classes to PFRPG).How much of the book can one use without the Monte Cook publications?Well the stat blocks all need to be converted, same as the classes. You can see by my review. Since I list how many each pages take up of stuff.Same sort of question...
If I have the Minis with the racial conversion, does everything else pretty much come over without much change (beyond the obvious...like the difference in 3.5 to PF classes...)?
While I don't have this particular product, yet, I did wish to point out that converting AE classes to PF is not that difficult. Quick-n-dirty adaptation would be using PF skills and filling in dead levels with bonus feats.
Also, AE classes went to level 25, but adapting them to PF you'd only have to look at 1-20. Levels 21-25 were to provide rules for Epic-level play in the core rulebook rather than via a supplement. Ignore levels 21-25.
I hope you like the art on this one guys!
I hope you like the art on this one guys!
I was a little worried about the art for a POD product, but damn, it came out beautifully.
Glad youb dig it :)
Brighter colors actually come out better for print than dark, so this was perfect for PoD.
It's been a while since I've seen a bulette in any decent art. Cool stuff Hugo!