Paladin / Dragon Disciple, is this good to go?

Basically my GM seems to believe that it would be impossible for a Paladin to become a Dragon Disciple, because he'd lose his faith to his original god. The GM says that as the DD delves deeper into his dragonnyness he'll stop seeing the gods as being godly and view them as peers to dragons, or that he'll have to worship Apsu (who doesn't have paladins). Now if he'd flat out said that this was a no go I'd grumble and move on, but he said he'd allow it just that he feels it creates a hole backstory wise. He said if someone else could present facts/ideas that support a paladin also being a DD he'd be much less grumbly about it in general. Any help for my Gold Dragon Disciple/Paladin?

A Paladin can also believe in a philosophy.

Also, that makes no sense. Why couldn't a Paladin who was a Dragon Disciple of a silver dragon not work, thats perfect. If Dragons have gods' then why would a paladin think that dragons are equal to gods? I think that it is a pretty narrow view. Yeah, ancient dragons are powerful. But so are high level paladins. So would a high level paladin lose his class due to the fact that he has become powerful?

It seems pretty straight forward that a Paladin could believe in deity and still take on attributes of a dragon while fulfilling his deity's desires.

There is no reason that a dragon disciple has to worship dragons. They are just more in tune with their draconic heritage. No reason your god couldn't be the one bestowing the blessing either. Think about it, if you have draconic blood, and your deity sees that as a power to be used for good, they could help you to unlock it.

Furthermore, why wouldn't Apsu have any paladins? He is a lawful good deity and gold and silver dragons are often quite dedicated to the same ideals as paladins.

I could see it being kind of weird if you didn't want to be descended from a LG type of dragon, but even that should be allowable. Your blood doesn't determine your alignment (at least, not for PC's).

There is no reason that a dragon disciple has to worship dragons. They are just more in tune with their draconic heritage. No reason your god couldn't be the one bestowing the blessing either. Think about it, if you have draconic blood, and your deity sees that as a power to be used for good, they could help you to unlock it.

Furthermore, why wouldn't Apsu have any paladins? He is a lawful good deity and gold and silver dragons are often quite dedicated to the same ideals as paladins.

I could see it being kind of weird if you didn't want to be descended from a LG type of dragon, but even that should be allowable. Your blood doesn't determine your alignment (at least, not for PC's).

Well Faiths of Purity says he has no Paladins or Clerics for that matter. He can't grant divine spells per that book.

My Goal is Gold Dragon Disciple Paladin of Shelyn

a paladin can also be a descendant of sorcerous draconic bloodline, there is no reason a person of dragon descent couldn't awaken its own sleeping powers by taking DD levels.

Actually, my main character in NWN2 was a 4 level paladin/1 level sorcerer/10 Dragon Disciple

Sorcerer level in the game allowed to take the Enlarge Person spell, and I focused on dual wielding with monkey grip, my old looking grey/white haired/bearded paladin looked like a titan warrior when he went into battle with the two greatswords Enlarged, it was glorious (and remember the additional ability/score points due to the spell and DD levels)

There is no reason that a dragon disciple has to worship dragons.

This is essentially the core of it. There is absolutely no reason that a dragon disciple has to worship dragons. No Pathfinder book makes that claim and your GM seems to have not only made it up, but is trying to restrict your character creation on an invented premise.

Dragon blood has no effect on your alignment and the Dragon Disciple class has no effect on your alignment. The class makes no mention of a single limitation on deity worship.

I'm having a hard time even understanding where your GM came up with this idea.

It's worth adding that in non PFS games, what the GM says goes. So if he's dead set against allowing it, you have no recourse other than not playing that character build in his game.

That being said, discussing it with the GM outside of game time could convince him to allow it, because there's no RAW reason it wouldn't work.

I'm having a hard time even understanding where your GM came up with this idea.

Probably the name of the PrC. "Disciple" doesn't exactly imply worship, but you have to be into dragons to a pretty creepy depth. Dragon Disciples are the kind of people who wear "ASK ME ABOUT MY DRAGON" t-shirts.

(You will be better off if you do not ask them about their dragons.)

It's worth adding that in non PFS games, what the GM says goes. So if he's dead set against allowing it, you have no recourse other than not playing that character build in his game.

That being said, discussing it with the GM outside of game time could convince him to allow it, because there's no RAW reason it wouldn't work.

He is going to allow it, he said so, he just thinks it's not viable Fluff wise. As far as I interpret things it is and I'm trying to garner views to sway him. He's swayable, per himself.

Tiger

just add to the fluff to be more fitting fluff-wise that your character is the great-great-greatgreat grandson of a dragon, and you just happen to awaken that blood of yours now. A paladin is usually also a noble, so you could just say your noble ancestors were always proud of their heritage (or had to hide it), plus this flavor fluff could actually help you put on your shield/CoA(coat of arms) a dragon, and get some golden draconic full plate armor in addition

Probably the name of the PrC. "Disciple" doesn't exactly imply worship, but you have to be into dragons to a pretty creepy depth. Dragon Disciples are the kind of people who wear "ASK ME ABOUT MY DRAGON" t-shirts.

(You will be better off if you do not ask them about their dragons.)

I kinda' see your point, but that whole idea ends at the name of the class. Nowhere in the description does it imply all this.

Although, my Dragon Disciple DOES have an "Ask me about my dragon" T-shirt... >.>

To look at it another way, not all dragons even worship Apsu. I can think of one from the pre-made campaigns that worships Zon-Kuthon.

You can be proud of your heritage and still have that not shake your religion.

In fact, my Dragon Disciple worships Desna, because that's who he was raised to worship and he enjoys what she is about as a goddess, though he pays passing reverence to Cayden Cailean and other good gods. It's not heretical to pay reverence to other gods as well if your main god seems to like them too.

I know, it wouldn't fly in my games purely due to fluff reasons.
The paladin is the epitome of humankind (well and other races nowadays...) warranting full concentration on her god/philosophy/ideology. This is expressed mechanical-wise in full devotion to taking paladin levels.

Also, I think paladin/DD is a rather underpowered combination as such - or do you plan to take the obligatory level of sorc (draconic gold) as well?
If not, I'd go for the paladin20 route and stress, that (while worshipping a god/philosophy/ideology other than dragon-related) you see the dragon (gold) as an exemplar of righteousness and good. Via questing etc. you get to know a powerful old gold dragon and are gifted with a full plate made of golden dragon scales and other (powerful) items.

Otherwise, if you look for mechanics search for Oterisk's guide to the dragon disciple - good stuff is to be found!

Ruyan.

What if the paladin is a part of an order that works with and for dragons. Like Order of the DlSulver Wyrm who work with dragons to bring order and justice to the world. It would be very reasonable for this paladin to become a dragon disciple.

Really you could build a class archetype for this, you lose your spells and gain natural armor, you lose mercies and gain a breath weapons or maybe the other way around.

But I think as long as the character doesn't violate his code of conduct he should be able to pick up new class levels. It seems asinine to me how much people want to gimp the paladin - he can't take new class levels, he can't deceive people but it's okay of he conveniently walks away when his party does bad stuff, he's preachy and dumb. Paladins are as nuanced as any other character and have the same capabilities to take different class levels and prestige classes.

The argument of the Blood of dragons coursing through your body, the Gold Heritage helping to guide your Moral compass from an early age, steering you into the Arms of the Paladin brotherhood, then upon interacting with a dragon, something in your blood comes forth, either the hatred of a Mortal Enemy (chromatic) or the kinship of a fellow (Metallic) brings something inside yourself to life, suddenly an arcane heritage you had never known before begins to stir as memories of long dead Dragons before you rise in your mind.

You begin to study these memories in your nights, discovering you have the ability to cast some arcane spells, then discovering you can help your god even more you embrace your Draconic Heritage, gaining many aspects of the Most Honorable of the Dragons, the Noble Gold. Now not only do your enemies have to contend with the powers bestowed upon you by your deity, but now they have to contend with the power's that caused your deity to choose you originally, the Draconic heritage that flows through you.

tl;dr a basic story/fluff aspect that can explain service to a deity & the desire to be a DD based solely on the character's possible backstory.

impossible for a Paladin to become a Dragon Disciple, because he'd lose his faith to his original god.

The paladin is the epitome of humankind (well and other races nowadays...) warranting full concentration on her god/philosophy/ideology.

desire to be a DD

All of these statements are making me realize that there's an odd interpretation of the Dragon Disciple.

Your player might, but as to the character, he/she doesn't CHOOSE to be a Dragon Disciple. You simply are. It's your bloodline. Just like you don't CHOOSE to be a sorcerer. As a player, you certainly get to choose how many levels of a class you take, but this does not remotely imply that your character is forced to conscientiously accept or desire it (though you are welcome to if you want).

Who you are in your blood has no relevance to your religion or faith. This is akin to saying that a Caucasian cannot be Muslim or that somebody of Asian descent cannot be Christian because their blood doesn't allow it. It's simply not this way. Race does not dictate creed.

You can be as Paladin as you want to be and no amount of Dragon Blood granting you power forces you to change this.